23-03-2002 23:05									#571
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Damn firaxians! give us something new to talk about at least! back to sleep

BOOH!!!

	30-03-2002 15:35									#572
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Did I wake you???

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It would make a interesting game concept if countries could split up in other ways than losing their capital. That is in my view the best way of having an America in the game.

	30-03-2002 16:07									#573
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quote: Originally posted by Oligarf It would make a interesting game concept if countries could split up in other ways than losing their capital. That is in my view the best way of having an America in the game.

That's it. We've talked about that many times. If we could add an "independence factor", the cities that are far from the capital and aren't happy enough could declare their independence. Maybe in Civilization IV.

	30-03-2002 20:48									#574
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quote: Maybe in Civilization IV.

I certainly hope so. But then the American makers of Civ should have to admit America hasn't been around since Genesis 1, and I'm not sure wether they can bring themselves to do that.

	02-04-2002 03:57									#575
	Pole iragularities Get a bigger avatar today!

Now lets do another pole with how many US and how many Non-US voted.

	07-04-2002 23:32									#576
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quote: Originally posted by Big Fish Now lets do another pole with how many US and how many Non-US voted.

I don't have to guess where Americans have voted for, I think they have made their ideas quite clear on this thread.

	18-04-2002 08:56									#577
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The Jews aren't in there and they've been there since... well, a long time. And the Romans building Jerusalem (in the game)? Please.

	21-04-2002 21:12									#578
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Centauri18: French building Paris??? English building London??? Americans building New York??? Russians building Moscow??? and so on.

	21-04-2002 21:48									#579
	Eborium, Jorvik, York.... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I think York appearing several times in Civ 2 was amusing.

	22-04-2002 00:54									#580
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Okay, okay, point taken.

	22-04-2002 04:02									#581
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America may be a young nation, but I think most would agree it's had a very large impact on history. I'm actually more surprised that the Iroquois and the Zulu were included, considering their legacy on the wider human stage is almost nil.

	22-04-2002 04:08									#582
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because its a game.... please let this thread die...

	24-04-2002 18:53									#583
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Whoha: If that's your only argument, I think the ones against you are stronger then.

	24-04-2002 19:39									#584
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Beren The whole problem is that in Civ 3 civilizations cannot rise or fall quickly enough. To make it more realistic, it should include about 200 civilizations and in the early history empires could be destroyed in one turn. Civilizations could rise in a couple of turns which have never been there before. To make it that realistic, however, is to complete destroy the entire concept of the game. It will be an impossible task to complete. And even when you complete it, you have an unbalanced game where chanches are not equally spreaded. It is both unthinkable to have Babylonians discovering Robotics and to have Americans discovering the Wheel. But in civilization 3 to become the predominant culture in modern times, you should already have an advantage in ancient times. This on no way makes sense. Both Babylonians and Americans have the right to be in Cilization 3, but it would lead to some curious events. If you want to remove civilizations, remove the Iroqouis, the Aztecs, the Zulus and possibly the Indians and replace them by Spain, Turkey, Saracens and some other culture you find important (maybe israel, both ancient and modern in one civ).

Due to the game concept, I think Firaxians (and Sid himself with Civ I and Civ II) were faced with two possibilities:

• to use names of existing or passed civilizations/nations, and risk some incoherence (as Beren noticed it),
  
• or to invente totally new civilizations, but it would have probably been to far from History.

I think the made choice was the good one (but it's totally personal ).

What concerns the choice of civs/nations present in the game... it's clear it could not have satisfied everybody. Maybe Firaxis should have implemented the possibility to create new civs...

	25-04-2002 05:32									#585
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quote: Plus, if we ain't in we're going to pull out the damn nukes and do some butt kicking.

So your proud of what you did to japan yeh lets nuke the world.

and rome has been there longer than washington a lot longer and there were romans before 500bc
its not when your in power it when you were there.

	25-04-2002 19:32									#586
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Could you explain that, my English is so bad...

	25-04-2002 22:00									#587
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I don't think your English is the problem. I don't follow that last post either.

	25-04-2002 23:22									#588
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Mainly that last line makes me puzzle.

	25-04-2002 23:31									#589
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I think that's the Queen's English.

	28-04-2002 10:14									#590
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oligarf why do you think the zulus and the iroquis shouldnt be in the game? reread my post, and the one above it. Of course my argument is quite valid for America as well. this is a game. and if it bothers you that much that america even exists, grab one of the extra civs packs.

	28-04-2002 10:18									#591
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I can't believe this idiotic thread is still going on. Someone pull the plug on this thread and let it die with some dignity.

	28-04-2002 15:16									#592
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This thread never had any dignity.

You know, I don't know what it is about this site and vbforums.com, but it seems to me that you guys will bash the US at any given chance. Why is that? Do you really think that all of America is Hollywood, fast food and materialism? Well get your head out of your ass! I for one am really f*cking sick of hearing about it. Why don't you come over to the states for a few weeks, check out LA, San Francisco, NY, New Orleans, any small town Texas and another in the Midwest. That should give you a nice cross section of the country. Then you can voice an opinion that might have some meaning. Until you know what you are talking about, do us all all a favor and spare us your ignorance!

-Justin

	28-04-2002 16:34									#593
	My last post, cos the thread is tooooo long. Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

For my part, I lived in Connecticut for about five years and have visited over 30 US states. Visited all those places you mentioned (even small towns in Nebraska !).

I think my opinion is informed, I don't think ill of America, although I do see a less than flattering side, which is the same for all countries.

	29-04-2002 09:05									#594
	Re: My last post, cos the thread is tooooo long. Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin Visited all those places you mentioned (even small towns in Nebraska !).

Try growing up in a small town in Nebraska. You would hate America more than any Euro, I guarantee.

	29-04-2002 10:12									#595
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quote: Originally posted by Amesjustin I for one am really f*cking sick of hearing about it. -Justin

If you're sick of it, then don't read it. Simple solution.

	29-04-2002 11:08									#596
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Wow. After all this time, and many postings this topic is still going.

Fact of the matter is that America deserve recognition as a great civ more than anyone else. True that America has only been a nation for little more than 200 years, but in that short amount of time, they have become the greatest world superpower ever seen since the Mongols, and with greater longevity as a nation to boot.

It is sad that many only think of America as Hollywood, fast food and junk culture. I've been through California and Florida and have in those few places seen more to America than the said things.

And I'm telling you, America has a much more interesting history than my homeland of Australia.

I may be Australian, but GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!

Anyway, the age of a civ shouldn't matter, nor the historical significance. And if you aren't satisfied with the civs available for selection, simply edit them out with Civ3Edit.

	04-05-2002 02:26									#597
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The way USA acts on the international scene proves that at least their governement does not deserve to be called civilized.

	04-05-2002 02:45									#598
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quote: Originally posted by KaiserIsak The way USA acts on the international scene proves that at least their governement does not deserve to be called civilized.

Not that I completely disagree about certain politicians are uncivilized (as they are in ALL countries), but I believe you need to qualify this statement.

	04-05-2002 02:52									#599
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai If you're sick of it, then don't read it. Simple solution.

You misunderstand my point completely. People can express whatever they want, I am not trying to suppress anything. As an American, Freedom of Speech is important to me.

What I am sick of, is ignorant lemmings posting anti-American sentiment simply to 'fit in' with each other without having any clue whatsoever of what American culture is really like. Applying stereotypes to a group of people displays your own ignorance.

If you wish to show to the world what an ignorant fool you are, I for one will not stand in your way.

	04-05-2002 03:41									#600
	Re: America isn't old enough to be in Civ3 Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Fresno This isn't going to be a popular opinion, but I have to say it. It is ridiculous to found Washington in 4000 BC! In a regular game, it takes 250 turns before it's 1490 AD. So it takes nearly half of the game before you're in the years Columbus made his trip to the west! It takes more as 300 turns before America's independence. Americans are just the descendants of some Europeans and Africans. So why are the Americans included as an independent tribe? Just because the US is the most powerful nation in the world? Austria and Turkey also were large empires once, and so were more countries which haven't been included.

You are right, there was no Washington in 4000 BC.

There was also no Paris, no Berlin, no Rome, no Tenochtitlan, no Beijing, etc. So I guess the Babylonians should be about the only civ in the game?