07-10-2001 19:55									#61
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Let them have some fun! America should be in the game eventhough it makes it more unrealistic (but it's a game, in the end of the day!).

Imagine. You're American (to those who are not). You run Civ and you can finally see America creating objects older than 300 years! Wonderful! And how much does it cost you? $60 max. Compared to cost of visiting Europe, let's say Rome... It is a good business, it's what you (as American) like the most.

Conclusion: America should stay in the Civ for improving Americans health. And keeping them believe they're the best. Cause they are, AREN'T THEY?

GOD BLESS AMERICAN IMAGINATION!!!

LET THEM DREAM. AN AMERICAN DREAM!

	07-10-2001 20:19									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Oligarf The US would never be what they are now if they weren't a European colony. The history of the US is that of a former colony, you can't deny that. History wouldn't be the same the US not being a colony.

And Western Europe would still be recovering from WW2 if we didn't bail your butts out with all our money. The only reason why the standard of living is so high in Europe, the US and Asia is because the US wasn't as moronic as the Europe after WWI and supress the conquered. You owe us your very prosperity and question whether the US deserves to be in a video game? Goddamn Euros. Thank god I'll never live amongst those with inferiority complexes to us.

	07-10-2001 20:49									#63
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quote: well who gave u MICROSOFT,

Is that supposed to be a good thing about America?

quote: if we didn't bail your butts out

Americans saying that every five minutes is hardly going to be endearing you to us. You may believe its true but just keep it to yourself.

How would you feel if every five minutes the French kept spouting how they saved your butts in the War of Independence.

	07-10-2001 21:13									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch How would you feel if every five minutes the French kept spouting how they saved your butts in the War of Independence.

Not to mention the Statue of Liberty.
How would NYC look without the Statue?
Touché!

	07-10-2001 21:34									#65
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We, Europeans were just so smart to create America. We actually saw it all coming. And Americans in common didn't want to save our butt in those days. So don't say all those Americans are so good.

Let's see what you can do about that Bin Laden guy, probably as much as with Sadam or Ghadaffi, NOTHING!

The FBI was so smart to ignore information on the disaster given by the French and English. And he, quite frankly, England and France are European nations.

	07-10-2001 22:38									#66
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You're just jealous that while the big boy Euro nations were making America a colony, your country got their butt kicked out of New York, leaving you guys with nothing.

You're just jealous that your country has been a speed bump in two world wars such that it was considered the back-door of Europe for the Germans. You live in the poop-shoot of Europe.

	07-10-2001 22:42									#67
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Let me see how I could put this in perspective.

In this game we play the leader of a civilization.

Babylon existing in 2001 is possible, because we're "rewriting history" in this game. A strong leader (who lived very, very long ) could make that happen. Incidentally, that's the role we play in this game.

America existing in 1000 BC (as the American culture that we know of today) is impossible, doing that and we'd be "inventing history". Spain is not even in there for heaven's sake. No Spain, no Columbus?

You see what I mean?

As for other countries with also short history, well, too bad America has the shortest. I guess 1500 years between 1000BC and 2500BC doesn't matter much to most people, but 150 years between say 1600 to 1750 does, because it's modern history and that's where we know more. Exactly when did the Zulus civilization started? Any responsible historian would tell you his/her guessimated number, but we all know when America established it's independence right?

Last edited by J10 on 07-10-2001 at 22:57

	07-10-2001 22:56									#68
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quote: Originally posted by J10 As for other countries with also short history, well, too bad America has the shortest. I guess 1500 years between 1000BC and 2500BC doesn't matter much to most people, but 150 years between say 1600 to 1750 does, because it's modern history and that's where we know more. Exactly when did the Zulus civilization started? Any responsible historian would tell you his/her guessimated number, but we all know when America established it's independence right?

If you want to argue in terms of years, use the Civ3 system. Founded in 1776, America has been around for 180 or so game turns, or even longer the the Egyptians, Babylonians, Romans, and just about every ancient civilization. Then America more then adequately fits.

	08-10-2001 00:14									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Rasbelin Not to mention the Statue of Liberty. How would NYC look without the Statue? Touché!

I couldn't imagine how New York City would look without those two magnificent towers, but now I see it as such every day.

But we do still have Lady Liberty.

I think this thread is just a silly exercise in chauvinistic chest-thumping on all sides. Yes, America saved the day in WWII. But France saved America during the Revolution. And America has given this, and France has given that...etc. ***-for-tat, can go on forever.

Personally, however, I would have replaced the French with the Spanish and the Iroquois with the Incas and the Zulus with the Malis. That would make more sense to me! But I seem to be the only one who would leave out the French.

Cheers.

	08-10-2001 00:19									#70
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quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV If you want to argue in terms of years, use the Civ3 system. Founded in 1776, America has been around for 180 or so game turns, or even longer the the Egyptians, Babylonians, Romans, and just about every ancient civilization. Then America more then adequately fits.

Excellent point.

By the logic of J10's post, the only civs to start the game with would be the ones existing in 4000 BC. That would mean you could only have the Sumerians, as they are the only ones who were considered a "civilization" that early (and in reality the yweren't, they were a few small city-states). Sure would be a looooonely game...

	08-10-2001 04:05									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov ***-for-tat, can go on forever.

LOL that censor will get rid of anything vaguely inappropriate. Testing: titmouse partition titanium...

Weightwatcher and nightwatchman used to be partly censored because of such problems but Markos fixed it.

	08-10-2001 10:44									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I think this thread is just a silly exercise in chauvinistic chest-thumping on all sides. Yes, America saved the day in WWII. But France saved America during the Revolution. And America has given this, and France has given that...etc. ***-for-tat, can go on forever.

Boris, you're right. We're like babies playing in the playground.
This conversation could last forever, so I think we should stop
this discussion right now. Let's get back to normal business.

	08-10-2001 15:58									#73
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As i would have foreseen, again a discussion about this topic have deviated into uninformative talk. Who is smarter? Europeans or Americans? Do u give credit to who OWNS the Statute of Liberty or who MADE the Statute? who gave the internet vs who gave the computers? etc etc.... i really dont think this is important to this topic. Who can deny the influence of America in today's world? I dont think anyone can refuse a place for America in the game by debating that particular aspect.

	08-10-2001 18:01									#74
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wait a minute. If you are saying this about america, then germany should not be in the game. Germany was united only around 1870. and the germans are the descendants of the Franks...

quote: The FBI was so smart to ignore information on the disaster given by the French and English. And he, quite frankly, England and France are European nations.

This little nation, the Philippines, told info on a suicide mission by the hijackers related to bin Laden all the way back in 1996 when the hijacker was interrogated...
---
TESTING:

***-ra-tion
par-***-ion
***-le
a-****-a

	09-10-2001 23:40									#75
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I want the Phillipines in the game, right now.


Just use the editor and include your own nation. Everyone happy now?

	09-10-2001 23:49									#76
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quote: we have given u the internet

The swiss invented that. Well, a group of scientists from Geneva actually who wanted to exchange data with collegues from all over the world.

	10-10-2001 01:24									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Mark L The swiss invented that. Well, a group of scientists from Geneva actually who wanted to exchange data with collegues from all over the world.

No, silly. Al Gore invented it.

Actually, it was the U.S. Military that first invented the Internet, and Gore WAS instrumental in introducing it to the private sector back when he was a senator. The Swiss may have had some similar early communications tech, but the internet as it is today was developed from the Pentagon's model.

Cheers.

	10-10-2001 01:40									#78
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Internet and networks were an American "invention".

Web browsers and the ability to view more than just text was a European invention. 1992 IIRC

	10-10-2001 01:46									#79
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Also ... web browsers were developed at CERN Switzerland, which is a European high energy physics collaboration, so don't let the Swiss try and claim all the credit!

It was developed to transfer more than data, but things like graphs, charts, images etc... around the globe in order to aid scientific corroboration.

	10-10-2001 02:18									#80
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True, it was CERN. More than just Swiss were involved in that. Thanks Big Crunch.

	10-10-2001 05:27									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch Internet and networks were an American "invention". Web browsers and the ability to view more than just text was a European invention. 1992 IIRC

However a web browser for the masses and not ivory tower researchers was an American invention, Mosaic, created at Univ. of Illinois' NCSA.

	10-10-2001 05:30									#82
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The fact that this poll is so close makes me sick. Next time, just have a yes or no question with "yes" or "no" answers. Otherwise people like to be funny by going with the "humourous" selection.

	10-10-2001 06:14									#83
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It's only close because people like to yank Americans chains a bit. History is the final judge, and the US more then adequately will make that cut, much to the chagrin of the bitter little euro people who's nations and cultures will soon disappear amongst the EU. Just as the original US colonies/states were more independent then unified, the individual EU nations will slowly disappear while the US isn't going anywhere. People voted out of spite more then common sense.

	10-10-2001 06:18									#84
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I understand that, but more so because there was an option that was humourous. The response would not have been nearly so great if it were simply yes no.

	10-10-2001 06:33									#85
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quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV Just as the original US colonies/states were more independent then unified, the individual EU nations will slowly disappear while the US isn't going anywhere. People voted out of spite more then common sense.

But, in the end, the USA and the EU will share the same fate, swallowed into massive worldwide corporate oligarchy.

And in 4 billion years the Sun will turn into a red giant, turning the Earth to cinders. And just who will care then?

	10-10-2001 06:37									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov But, in the end, the USA and the EU will share the same fate, swallowed into massive worldwide corporate oligarchy.

too late.

	10-10-2001 23:14									#87
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quote: And in 4 billion years the Sun will turn into a red giant, turning the Earth to cinders. And just who will care then

The collision of the Andromeda galaxy with the Milky Way is the more immediate threat, being only two billion years away.

	10-10-2001 23:31									#88
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Some thousand years further on the timeline and we will colonize space. Who will then bother about the nations as they are now?

	11-10-2001 01:20									#89
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quote: The fact that this poll is so close makes me sick.

I know, the truth is hard to swallow isn't it?

quote: It's only close because people like to yank Americans chains a bit. History is the final judge, and the US more then adequately will make that cut, much to the chagrin of the bitter little euro people who's nations and cultures will soon disappear amongst the EU. Just as the original US colonies/states were more independent then unified, the individual EU nations will slowly disappear while the US isn't going anywhere. People voted out of spite more then common sense.

That's the easiest explanation, isn't it?

quote: I understand that, but more so because there was an option that was humourous. The response would not have been nearly so great if it were simply yes no.

lol. I doubt that would make a difference!

	12-10-2001 03:14									#90
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Poll results you don't like is one of the problems with democracy - you didn't have to include the second or third options