18-09-1999 09:51									#1
	A Question for Designers who have done Revisions Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I'm trying to fix several scenarios that appear to have been created using the FW and CIC editors. The big problem that I've run into is that they start out with units in motion and/or Cities in disorder.

My question is: How do I get into the scenario at the point before the first unit moves or the AI starts checking city status. Surely when you do revisions to your scenarios you don't have start from scratch on unit placement or city status, or do you?

I think I've figured out what needs to be done to eliminated the weirdness when these scenarios are played with MGE but I need to get back to the very beginning. Can any of you designers assist me or at least point me in the correct direction to find what I need to do?

Thanks,

Ken

	18-09-1999 10:16									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

Ken,

I'm sorry if I've completely missed the point here, particularly as I've not pursued the task you're undertaking, but...

Start with the first tribe first

Start with the first named tribe on the list when you edit. You may have units in 'go to' mode, in which case you may have to eliminate them and put a replacement unit on the square that they had just departed. Progressively work through the tribes in order using the 'select human player' command before finishing the turn. Use the 'wait' command on a unit to make sure that the turn doesn't end automatically.

City disorder - check the level of difficulty

With regard to cities starting in disorder - this should not happen in properly-made games. If there's a recommended difficulty level, use that. If you are having persistent problems, load the scenario at an easier level and work with that.

As before, I'm sorry if I've misunderstood the question - but if not, I hope this helps.

	18-09-1999 10:21									#3
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Hi Ken,

I am not a scenario designer but I think I know the answer to your question. What you have to do is to pick the civ that has been selected as a protagonist of the scenario. It's that simple. Now, how do you know which civ is the protagonist one? Sometimes is evident, e.g. in the scenario Time of Thunder that you were talking about on another thread (a marvelous scenario btw), the protagonists are the Spaniards. When it is not so evident just pick one civ at random, go into cheat mode and look into scenario victory conditions.
If no protagonist was selected (that would only happen in empire-building type scenarios (eg MPS' FW scenarios), then it is more than likely that the civ that starts the scenario is the one listed in the first place (the white one).

Please keep me/us posted of your progresses. I was playing Spanish Pride a while ago and found really annoying to have to read messages like "aqueduct attack near Toledo"!


benedetti

(PS. Wow, it's been like 2 months since I last posted on these fora. But i'm back, he he he)

	18-09-1999 13:52									#4
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Cam and Benedetti,

Thanks for the help.

The one scenario that started with a city in disorder was Harlan's Lord of the Rings, but I was playing at Deity and he states in the readme that it is an emperor scenario, so that may be my problem.

Benedetti, at least I'm not the only one seeing those messages. Are you also using MGE?

I'll give your suggestions a try when I get home. And I'll let you all know how this repair goes. If I'm successful I'll pass the repairs back to the designers for their consideration.

Thanks again for your replies.

Ken

	18-09-1999 16:25									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Ahhhh - well I'm pleased to confirm that Harlan's 'Lord of the Rings' is a properly made scenario!

Pleased also that Benedetti and I seem to have been of some use.

	18-09-1999 17:33									#6
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I know I`m a bit late arriving on this topic, but I might be able to help.

To cancel a unit`s movement orders, move the cursor over the unit in question and select "Edit Unit" from the Cheat menu (or press Ctrl+Shift+U on the keyboard). This will cancel the unit`s movement orders. If there is more than one unit in the square, selecting any particular unit will cancel it`s orders, but not the others.

By the way, I also get those odd "Aqueduct attack near Toledo" style messages popping up on screen. FYI, the version of Civ2 I`m using is 5.2.5f, the one which comes with the Ultimate Civilization II Collection box set.

	18-09-1999 19:05									#7
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Paul, that is supposed to be that same one that was sold here in the US as MGE.

I never really suspected that the problems were designer errors since both Harlan Thompson and Jesus Balsinde are both respected designers within the community.

Another Question: Did the FW editors let you set values for objectives or was this done by hand through text editing? I don't own FW or CIC and therefore can't check this myself. Right now we have to give away points to the AI when using MGE because it will not recognize multipoint objectives. This is another problem that I would like to fix, if I can.

Ken

	18-09-1999 22:16									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The "aqueduct attack" message appears only when playing the scenario under MGE. If you play it under the FW version -I own both- there are no problems at all. So the problem is MGE, not the designers
Regarding your second question, the answer is yes. MGE also seems to screw up with the objective value system. Cities worth 3 points are ignored under MGE, at least in some scenarios. The best example is Alba de America, which under MGE cannot be decisively won (there are less objectives in the game than those necessary for a decisive victory), But again it works perfectly fine under FW. I guess this is the price you have to pay for such a fancy civilopedia!

	19-09-1999 03:08									#9
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Well, there`s something I didn`t know! Thanks Ken, I won`t make that mistake again !

Thanks also to Benedetti. I always wondered why I couldn`t finish Alba de America properly, even with a friend on multiplayer.

So now I`ve learnt two things in one session!
My hat goes off to you guys!