02-10-2001 17:41									#1
	Man-O-War or Long-Bowman? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I am a little bit confused after I have discovered in Civfanatics, that the speciel unit for the English are going to be Man-O-War (a ship); I thought that the special unit for the English was the Long-Bowman. Perhaps somebody knows about this?

	02-10-2001 17:48									#2
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I think it's become "official information" that the English CSU is the Man-O-War, but I'm not sure.

	02-10-2001 18:00									#3
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Hey, why not Robin Hood:
Hides in woods,
stats: 4-1-2 (for: accuracy - no armor - "they disappear to the forest")
Special skill: for every unit it beats, the English (or British) will gain some gold (the sum of upkeep multiplied with x)

	02-10-2001 18:04									#4
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Ha-Ha-Ha! Yes, very funny...
Anyway, it could turns out that Mr. Hood will be one of the English peoples "great leaders", how about that?
We will soon be much more wiser (I hope)

	02-10-2001 19:28									#5
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Everything I remember hearing points to the Man-o-War being the Brits UU.

Personally, I think Man-o-War makes more sense than a Long-bowman in several ways.

1. The English longbowman was the premier European soldier for only about a century or less. And while they were devestating on the field of battle when they were actually used, they required years of training and almost constant practice to maintain that peak of perfection. So much so that one English king went so far as to ban certain common pastimes of the lower classes and require that the yeomanry spend their free time practicing the longbow. Needless to say these restrictions weren't that effective and within a couple of generations England could no longer raise the armies of bowmen it had at one time.

Sadly, the longbow in the hands of a well trained archer was equal to if not superior to the musket up into the Napoleonic Era, but it required so much more training to use effectively that the musket quickly supplanted the longbow.

2. The British navy on the other hand was a force to be reckoned with for upwards of 400 years, and even now is still one of the best trained and equiped (if not largest) navies in the world. As much as anything it was the British navy that gave Britain its empire.

3. Purely from what we have seen so far in terms of Civ3 UUs that have been revealed, a Man-o-War would add a little variety. We don't really need another land unit when so few of the 16 Civs have much of a claim to any excellence at sea in their history.

	02-10-2001 19:34									#6
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I agree with the Man-O-War as well. As said before, although the Longbowman was devestating in the battlefield, they didn't give them their Empire. The strength of the British Empire was the creation of their colonies and to do so at the time they had to go head to head with the Spanish. Although Queen Elizabeth was able to side step from a full out war for a long time, eventually the Spanish was PISSED off and sent the Spanish Armada. And if it wasn't for the smaller, yet much FASTER British ships, they would have been beaten up big time. Oh and of course that freak storm helped too

	02-10-2001 20:10									#7
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Everybody seems to be pointing to the naval unit, but this has not been confirmed yet.

	02-10-2001 20:24									#8
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Well, if you actually think about it. very little has been confirmed as of right now, and just about everything could still change. especially if the mp people get their way and the game is delayed for another year so firaxis can put their thrice cursed multiplayer option in. blach.

	02-10-2001 21:24									#9
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I will drive to Maryland and steal a copy if they delay the game release for some stupid MP that I won't even play!

	03-10-2001 01:40									#10
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quote: Originally posted by SoulAssassin I will drive to Maryland and steal a copy if they delay the game release for some stupid MP that I won't even play!

Firaxis is in Maryland? That's my home state! Too bad I'm not planning a trip there again until Thanksgiving. I could do recon, hehehe. Where in MD? Near DC, I imagine.

Hmmm, maybe I can arrange a Columbus Day weekend jaunt down to visit Sid and the gang...

	03-10-2001 01:51									#11
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I think the Man-O-War is a better option (does anyone know what kinds stats this thing will have (it's supposed to be and upgraded frigate right?)) but remember this is Civ 3 and you could always change the UU if you want! Where did the name Man-O-War come from anyway?

Speaking of UU ships a really cool Greek UU could be the Fire Trireme. It would just be a Trireme with a higher attack, and a really cool graphic.

And I've said this before, I live right near DC, tell me what to do and I'll storm the gates of Firaxis HQ! But of course with the new Espionage system I don't even have to go there to steal it! Really good idea to get rid of actual spies on the field.

Once again, I've gone completely off topic.

	03-10-2001 01:57									#12
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I just wanted to say thanks to those of you who gave an thoughtful and historical answer back to my question about the special unit of the English. Thank you!

	03-10-2001 02:58									#13
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And if it wasn't for the smaller, yet much FASTER British ships, they would have been beaten up big time

If it wasn't for Drake's "fireboats" that were sent into Calais (?) harbour, the Spanish fleet would have been able to transport their army across the Channel and just ignore the small English vessels.

Also note: they were not British ships. They were English!

	03-10-2001 04:34									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Bleyn So much so that one English king went so far as to ban certain common pastimes of the lower classes and require that the yeomanry spend their free time practicing the longbow.

I believe this law still stands. Or if not this one, then a similar one that requires all English men of fighting age to practice at the archery butts for an hour every week.

	03-10-2001 21:43									#15
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English men of fighting age to practice at the archery butts for an hour every week.

The law is worded such that I can use it as an excuse to go down the pub and play darts at the weekend".

"If I don't go, I may be arrested! "

	04-10-2001 01:20									#16
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What a great reply you gave! I also indeed simply love "the old English pubs"!

	04-10-2001 15:06									#17
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I think it again comes down to whether or not they are the English or the British.

If they are the English, it should be the longbowman.

If they are the British it should be a naval unit, probably later than the man-o-war - maybe a dreadnought or an ironclad of some sort.

Last edited by Rogan Josh on 04-10-2001 at 20:09

	04-10-2001 15:15									#18
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I hope its not the man of war! If it is they will be the only civ that might NOT be able to build there UU (if they were landlocked) and thus less warmongers (like myself) would use them... also there is No Way it will be as useful as a land unit. Sea units tend to just be a big artillery set in this game...

	04-10-2001 16:29									#19
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Landlocked?

When have you ever played a game of civ not starting within ten squares of the sea?

Hopefully the british special unit will be a man-o-war.

	05-10-2001 06:50									#20
	Re: Man-O-War or Long-Bowman? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Mads Raven I am a little bit confused after I have discovered in Civfanatics, that the speciel unit for the English are going to be Man-O-War (a ship); I thought that the special unit for the English was the Long-Bowman. Perhaps somebody knows about this?

A prime example of 'Age of Empires' teaching history to our youth.

	05-10-2001 06:57									#21
	Re: Re: Man-O-War or Long-Bowman? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba A prime example of 'Age of Empires' teaching history to our youth.

Very true. I do believe that is how these kids know what a trebuchet is

The longbowman was indeed devistating and ended the era of the knight, since it could easily pierce armor. of course, the archers didn't hold well against gunpowder and cannon

I think the Longbowman may be more important to the defense of England in it's days of civil war, but on a national scale, the England navy led England to colonize nearly half the world! Spain (a non-included Civ) would be runner up.

We have to represent sea travel, since once you get passed the middle ages the Navy was much more impressive and had the greater lasting change on the world.

	05-10-2001 07:58									#22
	Re: Re: Re: Man-O-War or Long-Bowman? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by squid Very true. I do believe that is how these kids know what a trebuchet is

Hey at least they do know what a trebuchet is. The more difficult thing for Americans is whether or not they can pronounce the word... Tray bucket I've heard it pronounced...

Those things are awesome if you've actually seen them fired!

	05-10-2001 14:18									#23
	Re: Re: Man-O-War or Long-Bowman? Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba A prime example of 'Age of Empires' teaching history to our youth.

Ummm...Long Bowmen are a very decent choice for a British (not English, cuz they were a Welsh innovation) idea. They dominated the battlefields of the Late Middle Ages, and if not for the cannons of the French would have continued to do so for quite a while.

	05-10-2001 16:09									#24
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Yup

And actually, trebuchet can be pronounced two ways. Another way is tre-by-'shet. I believe the word is originally French.

	05-10-2001 19:07									#25
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Yup. And I bet your American tongue can't pronounce it...

Roll that "r"!