03-10-2001 00:48									#1
	Will be possible to offer other civ to BREAK a pact in exchange of other stuff??? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

For example. Your empire is in war time. Its in war against the Romans. So, u realise that for the Romans being capable to attack ur empire, they have to pass through the British territory, witch they have a free pass pact with the Romans. Now, the British are needed of Horses. So, u go and talk to them and offer:

We Offer: 1 horse
You Must: Cancel free pass pact with the Romans.

That will be possible???.

	03-10-2001 00:52									#2
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oh. good question.

sorry i don't have the answer.

and the bigger question, will they actually break the free pass act, and not sign it again for a while? (not like when you gave an AI to attack an enemy and they made peace in 5 turns)

	03-10-2001 00:59									#3
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IIRC, you can demand a military pact against the Romans. And a pact of this kind should require that the British cancel the free pasage agreement with the Romans.

	03-10-2001 01:22									#4
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quote: Originally posted by lockstep IIRC, you can demand a military pact against the Romans. And a pact of this kind should require that the British cancel the free pasage agreement with the Romans.

ya but breaking pacts would probably cost less on your end than declaring war

	03-10-2001 01:31									#5
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I dont want the British in a middle of a war that they will loose and will make the Romans more powerful. I just want to use them as a paceful wall against the Romans.

	03-10-2001 01:44									#6
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quote: Originally posted by dainbramaged13 ya but breaking pacts would probably cost less on your end than declaring war

And that was exactly the reason why I suggested this. Offer the British one horse, get them into a military alliance against the Romans (that is, if the British really need the horse that bad), and wait for the Romans to declare war. Now, it´s two against one.

quote: Originally posted by UberKrux and the bigger question, will they actually break the free pass act, and not sign it again for a while? (not like when you gave an AI to attack an enemy and they made peace in 5 turns)

I guess they could only cancel their new alliance with you peacefully after twenty turns.

quote: Originally posted by Asesino_Virtual I dont want the British in a middle of a war that they will loose and will make the Romans more powerful. I just want to use them as a paceful wall against the Romans.

Well, if I were the Romans, hated your empire, could attack you only via British territory, and knew the British could hardly defend themselves, I´d declare war on the British anyway.

	03-10-2001 01:52									#7
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Extremely good question, maybe Dan will give us an answer.

	03-10-2001 02:22									#8
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About on the same subject line, I'm also woundering if we will be able to ask something for EVERY diplomatic proposition that can be made. I remember SMAC where in some cases it could have been useful. Sure changes diplomacy.

	03-10-2001 04:41									#9
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Dont let this thread die! Its an important one and deserves a better discussion!

	03-10-2001 05:14									#10
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Well, I would hope that's possible to do.

	03-10-2001 05:40									#11
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This would be good, but only if carefully balanced- too easy to take advantage of the AI and abuse this...

	03-10-2001 06:17									#12
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider Extremely good question, maybe Dan will give us an answer.

LOL and maybe Sid Meier will do Civ4 Ha!

It is a good question that should be answered.

Dan's probably too busy playing Civ3 to answer the likes of us.

	03-10-2001 06:18									#13
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Ya the defintitly should be a break treaty button. Well hopeuflly that will be included.

	03-10-2001 17:26									#14
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My belief is that this feature will be in. In SMAC, Firaxis gave us all sorts of diplomatic options to choose from - Declare war on [civ], Make peace with [civ]... This would only be an extra version of these options already included. So, i think it will be in

	03-10-2001 19:07									#15
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Or if Britain have horses and sell them to Romans, can you give something to Britain so that they stop that trade? Maybe start selling those horses to you .

Did somebody know if in Civ3 will exist that thing that I liked in SMAC - lend agreement? If so, I would like if it could be mixed with some other options, like 'I will sell those horses only in exchange of X gold AND a loan of Y gold'

	03-10-2001 23:21									#16
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I will sustain this thread until Friday, day which Dan overlooks this forum.

	03-10-2001 23:37									#17
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from civ3.com

Our new diplomatic model will allow you to put nearly anything on the table when making deals with other civs. You can trade a variety of things, including:

Cities
Gold (lump sum or per turn)
Technologies
Luxuries
Resources
World Maps
Contact with other civs
Diplomatic Agreements, which can include the following:
Peace treaty
Right of passage pact
Mutual protection pact
Military alliance against a common enemy
Trade embargo against a common enemy

	03-10-2001 23:46									#18
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Yeah, but nothing about BREAK pacts in exchange of... u know what i mean.

	03-10-2001 23:52									#19
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yeah that bothered me too

it still has the old option of dealing with the relations between you and a civ , but not abusing how that civ treats another

I hope such options are in, but its likely they are not. therefore the best we could do probably is ask that civ (britian) to just join you in fighting of the other (rome)

	04-10-2001 01:31									#20
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I always wanted the "stop building that Planet Buster or feel my wrath" type option. Not that in SMAC anyway the other civ's cared about you getting upset.

Or maybe a stop building that project, nuclear weapon, etc and I'll give you this city.

	04-10-2001 07:23									#21
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yeah, would be cool

	04-10-2001 07:58									#22
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Asesino, no offense, but every time I see your name, the first thing that comes into my head is 'Ascetic Virtues'.

	04-10-2001 08:24									#23
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I'm coming out of my silence to say this(not by choice of doing limited posting but by crappy Netzero, but all will change when I get DSL on Oct. 8):

Possibly the Mutual Protection Pact could include what you are looking for Asesino.

	04-10-2001 08:34									#24
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I think a Mutual Protection Pact is where you and another civ agree that if an attack is made on either one of you, you both go to war. Like NATO, only defensive

	04-10-2001 08:37									#25
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It could also mean that the English wouldn't give the Romans (who are enemies with your Civ) a right of passage knowing that the Romans might attack you. Or am I betting on too much of a sophisticated AI?

	04-10-2001 08:46									#26
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quote: Originally posted by TechWins Or am I betting on too much of a sophisticated AI?

Yes.

	04-10-2001 09:46									#27
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quote: Originally posted by TechWins It could also mean that the English wouldn't give the Romans (who are enemies with your Civ) a right of passage knowing that the Romans might attack you. Or am I betting on too much of a sophisticated AI?

Firaxis did an excellent job with the SMAC diplomacy model, they know there stuff when it comes to making diplomacy fun.

The biggest challenge will be having the AI accept sensible deals, the SMAC AI was fairly good in this regard (it wouldn't embark on a self-destructive alliance lightly). I have faith in Firaxis to be able to make an even better AI for Civ3, particullary when it comes to being able to accept a reasonable offer, rather than always having to rip off the human...

	04-10-2001 10:27									#28
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I too think the Civ3 AI will be much improved upon Civ2 and as well as SMAC, but what I was hoping for was a bit of a stretch on the efficiency of the AI.

	04-10-2001 10:53									#29
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Yes... the main thing SMAC AI lacked was (a lot!) of tweaking, it seemed to play to slightly different rules, as if the AI was "finished", then a bunch of features added/modified, without the AI being updated. (the best example of this is the AI being unable to utilise crawlers, forests and treefarms properly)

*Most* of the flaws in the SMAC AI could have been fixed with a patch, which unfortunately never came. (Not even with Alien Crossfire )

Firaxis policy on patching SMAC seemed to be "if it isn't completely broken, dont fix it". And because the AI half worked, that was good enough .

Lets hope they support Civ3 better, and update the AI every so often as new winning strategies are discovered.
(Or is there some unwritten law about not improving AI in games )

	04-10-2001 18:38									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba Asesino, no offense, but every time I see your name, the first thing that comes into my head is 'Ascetic Virtues'.

And ur nick with Ana Kurkicoba. Are u so hot?
If we translate my nick to english, would be: Virtual Assassin.