03-10-2001 07:04									#1
	biological/chemical weapons Tired of ads?

How about instead of being able to build, first you build an ICBM which might require oil, then you have an option of loading it with
1) a nuclear warhead requiring uranuim
2) a biological warhead requiring herbs*
3) a chemical warhead requring gems*
*Just suggestons of goods

Another thing theyu could do is make a "terrosit unit" that is stealth like the spy and can "plant" all three above in cities as well as do the other usual stuff (destroy improvement, kill units, kill pop)
Of course the terroist unti would only be available under a new type of government (ie fundermentalist)

The effects of chemical warfare could be to kill half of all stationed units, and make city unhappy

Effect of biological warfare could be to kill a certain number of citizens, (not units) as well as unhappiness, and also make a 10% chance of spreading to another city anywhere in the world that is concceted be road and 25% chance if connected with a trade route

What do u guys think?

	03-10-2001 07:13									#2
	Suffering from ads?

Terrorists could be like privateers
but with the recent events, even if they were in, i think they would be taken out.. anyway,... MODDING!

	03-10-2001 07:17									#3
	Suffering from ads?

One word: banana.

	03-10-2001 07:18									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Pembleton One word: banana.

	03-10-2001 07:25									#5
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Neat idea, but I don't think you would need herbs and gems. For biological weapons something like Genetic Engineering would be neccesary. And they have gotten rid of moving spy units. It's all in an Espionage screen which I think is better.

Hopefully they can still plant nukes and such. Civ 3 is about history. What happened on September 11, 2001 was most definetely historic. "Those that do not learn from the past..."

	03-10-2001 08:41									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Genetic engineering would be a good requirement for a bio weapon. and it would be cool if they where added

	03-10-2001 08:46									#7
	Tired of ads?

there are bio weapons..."poison water supply" options for the spy.

	03-10-2001 14:05									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Nemo there are bio weapons..."poison water supply" options for the spy.

Sorry, mate, no spy unit in Civ3.

	03-10-2001 17:42									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Iceius Sorry, mate, no spy unit in Civ3.

There is an espionage menu, though

	03-10-2001 18:09									#10
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Sounds quite reasonable. I don't know if they would have thought of this as the world seems to have been asleep before Sept11 (read more Clancy, suckers), but it does have a place in the game.

	03-10-2001 20:37									#11
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I believe that donīt need to have fundamentalism to get "terrorist unit".We have examples of terrorists in others types of government during the history...

	03-10-2001 21:35									#12
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Mars Genetic engineering would be a good requirement for a bio weapon

Not really. Biological weapons (smallpocks) were already used - on purpose - by the British against native tribes in North America back in the 18th century.
IIRC chemical weapons were invented by the French in WW I.

	03-10-2001 21:57									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Ribannah IIRC chemical weapons were invented by the French in WW I.

Mustard gas and other chemical agents were indeed commonly used during WWI. It was thereafter that it was banned.

Then of course there is Irak and the Kurds. Irak is not a fanatical country, not religously anyway.

	04-10-2001 01:26									#14
	Got spare money?

Don' forget Agent Orange

The US still refuses to sign the treaties about biological (and chemical?) weapons.

It was suggested that Hitler had chemical weapons but did not dare to use them.

For the game I think it is more than enough to have nuclear arms, otherwise it just makes things complicated.

In the dark ages sometimes diseases were spread by the attackers of a city. As was done in the Americas by intentionally distributing infected blankets to the indians. The game does not have a disease simulation model, so these things will have to wait for CivIV.

	04-10-2001 01:36									#15
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Tventano Don' forget Agent Orange It was suggested that Hitler had chemical weapons but did not dare to use them. In the dark ages sometimes diseases were spread by the attackers of a city. As was done in the Americas by intentionally distributing infected blankets to the indians. The game does not have a disease simulation model, so these things will have to wait for CivIV.

I dunno about Hitler but Japan was working on biological weapons. They had stockpiles of diseases and stuff that they put on planes and (tested) dropping. They even had missions written up to fly into the United States and drop these bombs. Thankfully the war ened before that.

Yah, one thing I have always missed is a disease (and natural disaster) model. The Firaxis team won't do it because they say there's no way to defend yourself. But I think certain technologies would help. Medicine for disease, engineering (and coastal fortresses) for floods, and a good infrastructure always helps.

If the Civ the boardgame has it Civ 3 should too!

Too bad anyway. I'm sure the game will be great anyway!

	04-10-2001 01:58									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Tventano In the dark ages sometimes diseases were spread by the attackers of a city.

That's right. During the plague (Black Death), armies would catapult infected corpses over the walls of castles and fortresses.

And about Hitler. I think he would have used everything he had. He was building nuclear weapons, and he almost succeeded.

	04-10-2001 02:25									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Iceius Sorry, mate, no spy unit in Civ3.

WHAT?!

no way! when did this happen????

there better be a replacement!

how do you steal techs, plant nukes, etc?

	04-10-2001 02:50									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Nemo WHAT?! no way! when did this happen???? there better be a replacement! how do you steal techs, plant nukes, etc?

There is an espiange menu now instead an actaul unit you can move around the map

	04-10-2001 03:13									#19
	Got spare money?

that sounds dumb.

me:
"hey Abe, I'll give ou $500 bucks if you let me spy on you and plant a nuke"

my advisor:
"I dont think they americans will accept that deal"

Abe:
"throw in a corvette, and some rubber resources and you got yourself a deal"



what fun is that? ...a menu?
oh well, i hope it is something MUCH different then what i imagine. is there a link for a screenshot? (i seemed to have overlooked something)

	04-10-2001 03:21									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Nemo that sounds dumb. me: "hey Abe, I'll give ou $500 bucks if you let me spy on you and plant a nuke" my advisor: "I dont think they americans will accept that deal" Abe: "throw in a corvette, and some rubber resources and you got yourself a deal" what fun is that? ...a menu? oh well, i hope it is something MUCH different then what i imagine. is there a link for a screenshot? (i seemed to have overlooked something)

The Espionage screen is going to be different from the Diplomacy Screen (according to Dan). You will pay your spys to steal the money, not make a deal with the leader himself.

What some people are suggesting is that you will also pay money to protect your own civilization, i.e. counter-intelligence.

IIRC there is a wonder... I forgot what it's called... that will help in your Espionage efforts.

	04-10-2001 05:46									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Lorizael You will pay your spys to steal the money

for real? pay the spy to steal money? isn't that a little odd?

spy:
"it will cost you $500 in equipment for me to steal $250 from the Romans."

ummm, how would that work? it sounds weird.

	04-10-2001 07:11									#22
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I don't believe there is any option to steal money, you go into the espionage screen and select what you want the spy to do to what city (nuke, posion water supply, steal tech, incite revolt) and then you pay them to do it. So it's essientaly like having the old spy but instead of having an actaul unit to move up to the city you just tell them what city to spy on pay them some money then reap the benefits.

	04-10-2001 17:29									#23
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While a know a few players who like to meddle with spy's and/or nukes, I'm much more inclined to conventional warfare. It just gives me more satisfaction to rush tanks over vast plains to tear down the defenses of the enemy's haughty-looking city.

Other types of warfare usually conjure images of cowardice before my mind's eye.

	04-10-2001 21:52									#24
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True, I've always enjoyed the sight of a succesfull Blitzkrieg, but i do hope you have the ability to plant nukes in other cities. The only thing that would be even better then that, would be to be able to plant nukes and blame it on another civ. All you have to do then is sit back and enjoy the fireworks......

	05-10-2001 00:12									#25
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I personally always use all of my resources, spys, nukes, franchises, and convential forces. It doesn't make a different to me as long as it gets the job done

	05-10-2001 01:08									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Nemo for real? pay the spy to steal money? isn't that a little odd? spy: "it will cost you $500 in equipment for me to steal $250 from the Romans." ummm, how would that work? it sounds weird.

Umm, woops, I mean steal techs, plant nukes, all those nice little spy options.

My strategy usually never involves spys (except for defense). I just rain nukes and cruise missiles on my enemy, then come in with Helicopters and Paratroopers

	05-10-2001 02:10									#27
	Inflate your Upload Space

Yeah I kinda like the idea of not having little spy dudes and caravans everywhere. It becomes kinda tedious to micromanage after a while. It would be kinda cool if, when you establish an embassy, it is atually established in a city and can thus be targeted by other civs and what not to interfere with diplomatic endeavors.

	05-10-2001 03:02									#28
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it takes out micromanagement of units and puts in micromanagement of another screen

its like "i want to steal robotics from the romans" "it will cost me 1000 gold to attempt"

	05-10-2001 03:03									#29
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Pembleton One word: banana.

you do not like the super sheep?

	05-10-2001 03:43									#30
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I'm loving this new way of spying! It's much like it was in Master of Orion. It does eliminate much of the micromanagement.

Hopefully, we'll be able to invest a certain amount into espionage every round so that you don't have to keep going to the menu at every turn to get something done. Also, I think it should take some time before the task is complete.