04-10-2001 23:45									#31
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I hope the rebelling factions are other civs within the same Civ culture group as the original Civ. So if the British start rebelling, the French or Germans show up as they are some of the other Euro civs.

Although this idea will suck when the Americans rebel and the Aztecs show up. I definitely plan to change the American culture to be a Euro civ when I get my hands on the game. Having the British and Americans with different cultures, especially considering the past 100 years or so is ridiculous.

	05-10-2001 00:03									#32
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quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV I hope the rebelling factions are other civs within the same Civ culture group as the original Civ. So if the British start rebelling, the French or Germans show up as they are some of the other Euro civs.

I dont think that rebels automatically will be controlled by any neighbor AI-civ. Hence: They will have the same art (more or less) as their mother nation. Instead we should view them as an indipendently working city/province (like then barbarians captures one or more of your cities by their own).

	05-10-2001 00:16									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Ralf I dont think the rebels automatically will be controlled by any neighbor AI-civ. Hence: They will have the same graphics as their mother nation. Instead we should view them as an indipendently working mini-nation (like then barbarians captures one or more cities by their own).

The rumor did say that the split rebel factions won't allow diplomacy. Civs within the same culture group already have the same graphics with the exception of UUs. If there is no diplomacy with rebel factions, why not fill them in with already created civs? I'd like it much better however if diplomacy was allowed with the rebel factions. It makes possibilities like the French aiding the rebel Americans against the British possible.

Again, everything I'm saying is pure guesswork, and the "official source" is still suspect in my mind with regards to rebels at all. Maybe we'll get answers tomorrow

	05-10-2001 00:41									#34
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quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV Civs within the same culture group already have the same graphics with the exception of UUs.

Hmm - yes, come to think of it; your right.

quote: If there is no diplomacy with rebel factions, why not fill them in with already created civs?

I dont like this because of two reasons:

- Lets say you play the Americans. Now, just because some of your cities declare independence, doesnt necessarily mean that the rebels suddenly feels less american at all. Compare with the southern states during the american civil war. Remember that the rebels only are against your politics - NOT your (= their) mother-nation. Completely handing over all control to a foreign power would be viewed as high treason against their own patriotic (although rebellic) feelings as well. Accepting foreign help (but still having the political control) is another matter, of course.

- I suspect the human player can exploit deflecting AI rebel-cities to his own advantage much better, then the AI-civs can.

quote: I'd like it much better however if diplomacy was allowed with the rebel factions. It makes possibilities like the French aiding the rebel Americans against the British possible.

I dont think the idea of rebels automatically converting to a foreign power is the answer. Anyway, I think above scenario is better suited for a - well, a scenario, I guess.

quote: Again, everything I'm saying is pure guesswork,

Agree. We really dont know anything for sure about this idea, yet.

	05-10-2001 02:17									#35
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SerapisIV, i said "I dont know if establish embassies with the rebels will be possible". I think will be possible, like in CIVII. But again, the revel faction will NOT be controled by ANY civ. Where would u get more civs in a 16 civ game were no civ has been defeated?

	05-10-2001 04:10									#36
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Hi Guys,

I certainly hope that, in the case of any rebellion, that the rebelling cities become a new, neutral power, under the control of no other CURRENT CIV. I also hope that diplomacy will be an option with rebels- allowing you to invite rebels back into the fold without the need for a costly war! (Although the mother nation would probably need to make some MAJOR concessions) As has already been suggested, it would also be an excellent way for foreign Civs to take advantage of the situation! I do feel that rebelling cities should take any accumalted culture in their cities with them, as well as the benefits of any Major/minor wonders! (Thus making it that much more important to get them back!!)
Lastly, I hope they've changed the way government changes worked. I was never happy with, for example, getting the Tech for Monarchy and then going to "Start Revolution!" I always felt that a change in government should often be forced on the player by his own citizens, with refusal to change beiong grounds for the aforementioned rebellion! So, what I'm saying is that, you should be able to change government at will, but if you do it too often, or too drastically, then you should invite a rebellion and second, when a new, better government becomes available, you should get demands from your people asking you to change to this government and, if you refuse, a rebellion might ensue!!
From a gameplay standpoint, this would also be a great way of stopping people from changing governments for selfish reasons (ie changing to a monarchy just so you can start a war!!)

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

	05-10-2001 04:12									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Asesino_Virtual SerapisIV, i said "I dont know if establish embassies with the rebels will be possible". I think will be possible, like in CIVII. But again, the revel faction will NOT be controled by ANY civ. Where would u get more civs in a 16 civ game were no civ has been defeated?

I'm assuming standard Civ3, which is 8 civs total. I doubt I'll play a 16 civ game unless the menu and advisor screens fet patched to handle all 16. Assuming 8, there's always room for more on the map, though maybe not enough room for an extra civ on the advisor menus.

	05-10-2001 05:03									#38
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Since playing with 16 CIVs will be officialy supported, without file-editing in the middle, i must assume that those 16 civs will fit OK in all the screens they must be together.

	05-10-2001 05:03									#39
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quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV I'm assuming that the old Civ policy of enemy civs breaking in half if their capital is captured and there is a civ spot open....

I've had rebellions in CIV2 when I've already had the maximum number of civs. In this case, the rebels called themselves "Barbarians".

	05-10-2001 06:28									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Asesino_Virtual Since playing with 16 CIVs will be officialy supported, without file-editing in the middle, i must assume that those 16 civs will fit OK in all the screens they must be together.

Nope, Firaxis guys came on Apol and stated that the game is set up for 7 Civs plus the player civ. It has to be edited to hold all 16. It was Firaxis themselves who said the screens are not set up for 16 and may cause problems.

Unless they announce otherwise, 16 civs is an editable option, but and unsupported option. Any bugs that are caused by using all 16 will not be patched unless enough gamers demand it in the inevitable patches after release.

	05-10-2001 06:33									#41
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quote: Originally posted by star mouse I've had rebellions in CIV2 when I've already had the maximum number of civs. In this case, the rebels called themselves "Barbarians".

Thats something new. I never encountered that. Actually I rarely even had civs break up after their capital was captured. The AI cheated so much with money that they were able to just buy a new capital without breaking up.

	05-10-2001 06:33									#42
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Greeks is definately not spatans, maybe Cypriots
Germans - Polands (Poland was part of German empire up until the end of WW2)
Aztechs - Mexicans
Spanish - Portuguese
French - That area around marseilles that dont really call themselves French

Also hopw about when the empire splits, the nes faction would have all of the original civs technoilogies plus there would be a change of govt, a bit like a communst revolution

ie "Civil war, German communists in Hamburg rebel, they are now calling themeselvs polish"

or

"Civil war, Russian capitalists/nationalists seize power in Kiev, they are now calling themselves Chechnyans"

Its a pity they're not going to include an extreme right govt in civ3 like fundamentilst or fascist. I reckon it would work really well in this kind of scenario

	05-10-2001 07:34									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Taso_84 Germans - Polands (Poland was part of German empire up until the end of WW2)

Eh?

quote: Aztechs - Mexicans

EH?

quote: Spanish - Portuguese

so so

Russian rebels should be ukrainians, sicne ukraine is where russia started (kingdom of kiev) and then moved away.

quote: Its a pity they're not going to include an extreme right govt in civ3 like fundamentilst or fascist. I reckon it would work really well in this kind of scenario

That I agree with.
We need some modern despotism! Dont' make it as powerfull, but make it good enough.


THe whole idea of rebels is great!

	05-10-2001 07:35									#44
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Serapis, where have you been? They already made an official anouncement about 16 civs being supported. Look for some of Dan's posts around last Friday.

	05-10-2001 08:10									#45
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Really? Damn, I feel stupid now, I must have skimmed right over that. Fully supported now? That kicks ass. Hopefully we can have a real cold war scenario games now, puppet states and all.

	05-10-2001 09:54									#46
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quote: Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker I also hope that diplomacy will be an option with rebels- allowing you to invite rebels back into the fold without the need for a costly war! (Although the mother nation would probably need to make some MAJOR concessions)

Yes, that would be a cool idea. Oh that would be sweet.

	05-10-2001 10:46									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Taso_84 ... Its a pity they're not going to include an extreme right govt in civ3 like fundamentilst or fascist. I reckon it would work really well in this kind of scenario

NO PROBLEM, since you can create your own government types with the editor.

Have lots of fun with the game as it is first, though.

	05-10-2001 13:38									#48
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quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV Thats something new. I never encountered that. Actually I rarely even had civs break up after their capital was captured. The AI cheated so much with money that they were able to just buy a new capital without breaking up.

It could also have been something that happened in a CTP game I played, so I could be disseminating false information ...

	06-10-2001 04:32									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Taso_84 Germans - Polands (Poland was part of German empire up until the end of WW2)

Umm had too much of those Australian Beers ?


Poland was idependent since >998 to 1775
Then again in 1809-1815
Then again in 1914 till present.


And before 1914 Poland was a Automouns republic of russia. Most of poland was in russia

	07-10-2001 09:42									#50
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So what, if your going to be petty with poland, thay can make it czeckslovakia, and if u still dont like that then Austra, (even though austria has always beeen allied with Germany)