04-10-2001 04:32									#1
	Rebels are IN CIV3! Enter the AD-FREE zone

Apparently rebels will be included in the game. They will have the same art than they mother nation, but i dont know if they can stablish embassies (to deal with).

	04-10-2001 04:44									#2
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but...will it be like...

quote: the Russians revolt! The empire splits into Russian and rebel Zulu factions...

or...

quote: the Romans revolt! The empire splits into Italian and rebel Byzantine factions

?

	04-10-2001 04:47									#3
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Will be like this... "Civil war in Russia, Chechenian faction revels and break apart"
Other civ will NOT take command of the new faction.

	04-10-2001 04:59									#4
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So it's factions based on real life? Not just any random civ name?

And what do you mean the civ won't take charge of the faction? You mean it will just exist like a barb horde that captured some cities?

	04-10-2001 05:02									#5
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How exactly do you know this? Could you provide a link?

	04-10-2001 05:12									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Asesino_Virtual Will be like this... "Civil war in Russia, Chechenian faction revels and break apart" Other civ will NOT take command of the new faction.

I don't quite understand this.... Do you mean that those cities will still be part of your empire but you won't be able to control them? Or will you have to recapture them? Or what?

	04-10-2001 05:12									#7
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It was originally reported on civfanatics, but the link is to here

	04-10-2001 05:26									#8
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Its now in real life. The Chechenians was an example. With this i wanted to say that other group besides the 16 CIVs will be those who will revel.
When a faction revels, u loose control over certain amounts of cities or ur empire, so, u have to recapture them.

	04-10-2001 05:59									#9
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So someone posted this info on a message board and now it is fact? Sorry for being suspicious, but, you know...

	04-10-2001 05:59									#10
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I have a few questions regarding this. If part of your civilization rebels is it an act of war for another civilization to attack the rebels and capture a city? What if they are allied with you and are trying to help? What if your ally captures one of the rebel cities. Does it go back to your control or stay with your ally?
How are the above questioned answered if your the ally helping crush the rebellion in a friends land?

Just wondering....

	04-10-2001 06:15									#11
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Firaxis, and confirmation of this?

How civil war worked in Civ2 was if a larger country declared war on you, and then you captured their capital, they would split into two because of civil war. The new country would have half of the cities of the original civ and would be like a new civilization in ever way (although I believe they start the game at war with the original Civ that spawned them). I have no idea how Civ3 will do this, just some insight from Civ2.

	04-10-2001 07:05									#12
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I'm assuming that the old Civ policy of enemy civs breaking in half if their capital is captured and there is a civ spot open (a civ has already been conquered. There appears to be a lot of original Civ ideas returning. I'd say its a safe assumption this would return as well as it is a pretty cool feature.

Hopefully though the idea of rebels being in Civ3 won't mean the Civ2 partisans, damn I hated those things, all they were was annoying, not useful.

Oh yeah and where is the Firaxis statement? The Civfanatics link is BS, I'll believe its a possible feature if at the very least its included in a gaming preview somewhere.

	04-10-2001 07:08									#13
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Well, just keep in mind that everything we see on this site is BS til we hear it from Firaxis. Everything. And even the official stuff is subject to change.

	04-10-2001 07:12									#14
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Ive just have a email-chat with the guy of the post. He is working in a preview for gamepen.com, i asked who is his source, and he said "Firaxis". So, its pretty official. Perhaps, one of the (surely) many surprises that Dan is keeping.

	04-10-2001 07:16									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Bisonbison Well, just keep in mind that everything we see on this site is BS til we hear it from Firaxis. Everything. And even the official stuff is subject to change.

With 3 weeks till (probable) release, the only things that should be changing are bugs and maybe an attack rating from 11 to 12. Otherwise, I'm gonna be stuck waiting way too long for the game that I've already waited long enough for

	04-10-2001 07:18									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Asesino_Virtual Ive just have a email-chat with the guy of the post. He is working in a preview for gamepen.com, i asked who is his source, and he said "Firaxis". So, its pretty official. Perhaps, one of the (surely) many surprises that Dan is keeping.

See if you can email chat again and see if those damn partisans are coming back.

Thanks for the info, who was the "Firaxis" informant? PR, Jeff, Dan, cousin of Firaxis employee, janitor?

	04-10-2001 07:49									#17
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What about barbarians? This was probably the most under developed aspect of the game. They could easily be made to modify real-life conditions. If Sid incorporated the "release mind worms" kind of feature into Civ 3, it could be very interesting. In older times, it could be like the Dutch paying pirates to harrass french ships or in modern times it could be like state-sponsored terrorism.

	04-10-2001 07:55									#18
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Tis true then? Kick A$$!

	04-10-2001 09:53									#19
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This could be terribly kick ass, good job on the info asesnino. But I am left to wonder, how will leader art and various other diplomatic functions be handled? Will they have the same leader art as the mother country? Or will they simply have none at all?

Next, and most importantly, what will trigger this split? Bad luck? Lots of unhappiness? The old-school capture of the capital?

	04-10-2001 10:05									#20
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What? I loved partisans! They really made you fight for every tile. Partisans are blitzkreig-busters, making it hard to take out a slew of cities in one turn. Long live the resistance!

	04-10-2001 11:25									#21
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Partisans suck! I hate those things.

That's why I always take a few spies in with my invading howies. And if the civ I'm attacking has a nice railroad network, they're history.

	04-10-2001 11:25									#22
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If this information turns out to be true, then this will be one of my BIGGEST wishes for the game granted. Basically, what I wanted to see was the chance for a split in your nation under 4 possible circumstances:
1) 2 or more cities are in a state of revolt
2) General Civ Unhappiness over 51%
3) Loss of Capital or
4) Sudden Change of Government.
The way I thought it might work was that, if any of the above conditions were met, the computer would use a RND function to determine if cities broke away based on factors like corruption, city unhappiness, cities culture, # of foreign nationals, distance from capital and # of military units in city. If a city breaks away, then it might lead to a dominoe effect, where neigbouring cities are also checked (if applicable).
Though I'm not sure if they go into this much detail, I always hoped that rebel cities would become like a "minor Civ", that you could either re-conquer through war, or lure back into the fold via diplomacy!! I certainly hope that is the case!!!!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

	04-10-2001 12:37									#23
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good ideas lurker
I especially like the one about the sudden change of Gov't

	04-10-2001 13:57									#24
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Still waiting for official confirmation.

Afterall, lots of Firaxians frequent this site.

	04-10-2001 15:53									#25
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What change of goverment is not sudden?

	04-10-2001 16:42									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Eli What change of goverment is not sudden?

Good question.

What I think he meant is that the revolt could occur when the change is drastic, i.e. going from Democracy to Despotism or something like that.

If the change occurs gradually - Despotism - Monarchy - Republic - Democracy, the risk of revolt should be minimal or non-existent.

	04-10-2001 21:54									#27
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I think the city graphics, and special units will remain the same as its mother country.
For the rebel faction´s leader, i think:
1) No face. He/she will be behind a mysterious shadow.
2) Standard face. All the same face for all the rebels factions in the game. Perhaps the Che Guevara?. Would be cool, Argentina is everywhere!

	04-10-2001 22:25									#28
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quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV Hopefully though the idea of rebels being in Civ3 won't mean the Civ2 partisans, damn I hated those things, all they were was annoying, not useful.

They represent guerilla warfare. I was frequently able to recapture lost cities using them. One modification would be nice though. As they know the land better than the invaders, they should be invisible until attack (stealth).

Nice ideas Aussie

	04-10-2001 22:25									#29
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Rebels are definitly a good idea.
More challenging domestical problems also - not just mostly foreign ones, as in Civ-2.

In Civ-2 you lost some city-area production + less tax, as long as your cities was rioting. In Civ-3 you should also stand the risk of having them declare independence as well, if you are ignoring the problems and/or your gov-policies is just too offensive.
If one or more of your cities declare independence, you are forced to re-conquer your rebel-cities, by actively fight against any troops you had fortified in those cities, before the riot. And thats definitely harder then just enforce martial order by moving in troops.

	04-10-2001 23:40									#30
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So what would be viable rebel factions for the civilizations?

Americans - Confederates
English - Scots? (Would be Americans, but...)
Japanese - Ishida (the opposing side of the victorious Tokugawa)
Roman - Byzantine
Greek - Spartan?

Corrections? Others?