05-10-2001 12:27									#1
	Take the Locutus Challenge Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

In another thread, Dan from Firaxis said about the manual for Civ3:

quote: Just flipped through it, it weighs in at 235 pages, and is just over 13 ounces.

My theory is that he was refering to this. (Note the similar number of pages . . .) So that all of the people who strangely insist on a big, beefy manual will be either buying the Limited Edition or ponying up $13.99 extra for their dream manual. I'm not necessarily slamming Firaxis, might just be Infogrames's call. Whatever.

Fact is, I think the regular edition will include a skimpy manual and a larger .pdf file with more details (but not as large as the strategy guide). The "faithful" insist that they will get their manual in the box with the standard edition.

I propose we put our money where are mouths are and propose the following gentlemen's wager.

Locutus has said he will not by Civ3, but thinks it will be fun to play with at least a few times. As I have stated before, if I am wrong about the manual (namely, when I open my Standard Edition box on the release date, the box contains a 235+ page manual) I will buy Locutus a copy of Civ3 and have it shipped to him.

Here's my challenge to the "Firaxis faithful". If you are convinced that Firaxis (or infogrames, whatever) will include your "beefy manual" in the standard edition, put you money where your mouth is. Agree to buy Locutus a copy of Civ3 and ship it to him if I am right!

(Of course this is not an actual wager - if anyone really believes in this manual and takes the challenge, Locutus wins either way.)

	05-10-2001 15:13									#2
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Okay,
I'll take up your challenge. For several reasons.

One, cos Locutus has helped me out with coding in the past and hopefully in the future (CTP2 stacking problem, hint hint ).

Two, cos your name is a Kinks song, even if not a particularly great one.

Three, cos dang it, he said the manual was 235 pages!

	05-10-2001 19:37									#3
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quote: Two, cos your name is a Kinks song, even if not a particularly great one.

Weird, I got the name from a The Mission UK song. How did the Kinks song go? Maybe The Mission song was a cover >>shock, gasp<<

	05-10-2001 23:12									#4
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How many copies of Civ3 does Locutus need

	05-10-2001 23:58									#5
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I was hoping one of the Firaxis-can-do-no-wrong crowd would take my challenge. I guess their NOT accepting the challenge proves how little faith they really have!

(exception: if you don't have the money to buy an extra copy, that's fine. Shouldn't accept a wager you can't cover, even if you are sure.)

	06-10-2001 00:03									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Pah, just get every Warlord or greater who ever posted in Civ3 general to send Locutus a dollar
Then force him to use it to buy a copy of Civ3.

	06-10-2001 00:23									#7
	Put an end to popups!

Here's part of the song:

Mister Pleasant,
How is Mrs. Pleasant?

People say Mr. Pleasant is good, Mr. Pleasant is fine
Mr. Pleasant's okay, Mr. Pleasant's alright
As long as Mr. Pleasant's alright
Hey hey, how are you today?

Sound familiar? Its one of those biting social commentary type songs, knocking the complacency of suburban life.

	06-10-2001 00:39									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The game-manual and the official strategy guide is two different books. Im 99.99% certain of that. It was so with Civ-2, and it will be so with Civ-3 as well. Firaxis is very well aware of the game piracy-problem. Why should they lower the threshold even further, by offering the original manual as a separate buyable item? The complexity of the game (= requiring that original manual) offers some kind of piracy-prevention in itself. Not bulletproof prevention perhaps, but still...

Last edited by Ralf on 06-10-2001 at 00:44

	06-10-2001 00:44									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Here's part of the song: Mister Pleasant, How is Mrs. Pleasant? People say Mr. Pleasant is good, Mr. Pleasant is fine Mr. Pleasant's okay, Mr. Pleasant's alright As long as Mr. Pleasant's alright Hey hey, how are you today? Sound familiar? Its one of those biting social commentary type songs, knocking the complacency of suburban life.

Same song. Mission UK did it as a ragtime ditty with some heavy electronic effects. Strange . . .

	10-10-2001 03:12									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Just a bump to remind Harlan to budget an extra $50 plus shipping for October 30.

	10-10-2001 03:16									#11
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Dan's talking about the game manual (both standard and LE). I'm proofing the strat guide this week, which is roughly 240 pages as well.

Jeff

	10-10-2001 03:17									#12
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CivII came with a rather beefy manual, what makes CivIII any different?

	10-10-2001 03:21									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS Dan's talking about the game manual (both standard and LE). I'm proofing the strat guide this week, which is roughly 240 pages as well. Jeff

I think that answers the wager.

	10-10-2001 03:40									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS Dan's talking about the game manual (both standard and LE). I'm proofing the strat guide this week, which is roughly 240 pages as well. Jeff

Thanks for that, Jeff! I still don't understand:

1. why anyone thought a manual wouldn't be included in the game and
2. why Mr. P is so concerned about whether or not Locutus gets a copy. If he doesn't want it, great - more copies for the rest of us. Then again, Mr. P will be buying him a copy now, won't he?

Whatever...........

	10-10-2001 04:11									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

IIRC, I remember that an anyomous site that made a list of Civ2 suggestions got a referance in that manual's designer's notes. Will Apolyton get one for Civ3?

	10-10-2001 04:29									#16
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HAHAHA Question answered.

Remember, civ has always had a history of chunky manuals. But I have to admit that 235 pages is chunky even by civ standard

I am glad I didn't say something stupid

	10-10-2001 05:15									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS Dan's talking about the game manual (both standard and LE). I'm proofing the strat guide this week, which is roughly 240 pages as well. Jeff

Does the standard and strat guide contain fold out tech charts/terrain charts ala Civ2?

	10-10-2001 06:33									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Ralf Why should they lower the threshold even further, by offering the original manual as a separate buyable item?

I think I read/ heard somewhere that selling a game manual* without the game is illegal... (The Civ I manual being a hot item for this purpose)

Ether way, I don't bet, and I'm salivating at the thought of 235 pages of Civness.

(*Not to be confused with a "hint" book, but THE game manual.)

	10-10-2001 09:51									#19
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Woo hoo! Looks like I'm gonna win this bet already. Mister Pleasant, I hope you're saving up those $50!

	10-10-2001 10:07									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Whatcha gonna do? Guess I'll be buying two copies.
Hey Serapis, if you really want to know if a tech tree will be included, here's a surefire method for getting information. Issue a challenge wager . . .

	10-10-2001 13:37									#21
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WTF? I can't believe I'm reading this!
I wonder what was in that soup I had for dinner last night? This must be some kind of weird hallucination...

If not, I think I like where this is going

Dang! I knew I had picked a bad time to travel last weekend: due to all the sh*t going on in Afghanistan security was so high traveling became a true torture (for the first time in something like 10 years I actually had to show my passport at the Dutch-German border ), the Civ3 Expansion Pack thread almost turned into a flame war in my absence and, last but certainly not least, I completely missed this thread...

Mister Pleasant, are you telling me you're actually crazy enough to spend 50 odd bucks on getting me a copy of Civ3 over some 'stupid' manual? I know Harlan well enough to know he's crazy enough to do such a thing over less (he actually did a somewhat similar thing - though not quite as crazy as this - with a CtP2 beta) but what did I do for you to deserve this?

Come to think of it, I think I'm on to you: you're a very shrewd man, Mister Pleasant You know very well that if I get a free copy of Civ3 I'll have a really, really good look at it and at it's modding capabilities and if I see any possibility of contributing anything useful to the Civ3 community I will do so, even if only to repay my debt to whoever bought me that copy. This is just a plain old bribe to get me out of CtP2 and into Civ3...

Hmm, I've never been bribed before, I like it. Corruption rocks!


(PS Harlan, don't worry, a first draft of the solution to that stacking problem is being compiled as I speak )

	10-10-2001 14:34									#22
	Put an end to popups!

do we get a strat guide in LE as well? i still cannot find a definite list of what is in LE

	10-10-2001 16:32									#23
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quote: Originally posted by cassembler I think I read/ heard somewhere that selling a game manual* without the game is illegal... (The Civ I manual being a hot item for this purpose)

Well, it would depend on where you are located, of course, but this is definitely not part of USA copyright or licensing law.

	10-10-2001 17:47									#24
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Amazing. It is actually expected that people will enter this 'wager' that they can never win? As long as there is no reward for being right, the deal is schewed.

What is even more amazing is that victory is claimed "since nobody dares to enter the wager". LOL @ the logic.

Ah well I'm not about to get excited about the manual issue. I ordered the LE anyway. :P

	10-10-2001 18:16									#25
	Got spare money?

almost 500 pages of civ3

holy molely!

	10-10-2001 22:35									#26
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quote: Come to think of it, I think I'm on to you: you're a very shrewd man, Mister Pleasant You know very well that if I get a free copy of Civ3 I'll have a really, really good look at it and at it's modding capabilities and if I see any possibility of contributing anything useful to the Civ3 community I will do so, even if only to repay my debt to whoever bought me that copy.

That, and I've used at least $50 worth of your SLIC.

[/quote]Amazing. It is actually expected that people will enter this 'wager' that they can never win? As long as there is no reward for being right, the deal is schewed. [/quote]

Point wasn't to win anything - the point was to demonstrate your conviction. After all, if you really believed their would be a manual with Civ3, you would believe there was no chance of losing, so why not?

	10-10-2001 23:57									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Mister Pleasant Issue a challenge wager . . .

What's that? Serapis confused (an all to frequent occurance)

	11-10-2001 00:36									#28
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Mister Pleasant,
You think my SLIC is worth at least $50? Hmm, maybe I should start charging people...

quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV What's that? Serapis confused (an all to frequent occurance)

He means that you should start a new thread in which you proclaim "I will buy Locutus a copy of the strategy guide if the manual doesn't contain a fold-out tech-tree and I challenge anyone to counter me by buying Locutus a copy if it does" Surely, Jeff or Dan will answer your question in no time

	11-10-2001 01:11									#29
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV Does the standard and strat guide contain fold out tech charts/terrain charts ala Civ2?

No tech tree in the standard edition, per Dan:

quote: Here's the deal: It's a four-panel fold-out of the tech tree, with the Civ III logo on the back. I wouldn't be too concerned if you only bought the "regular" edition, as the Tech advisor allows you to see the entire tech tree for each era anyway. You basically *needed* the tech tree to play Civ II or SMAC because those games didn't do a very good job of letting you see the "big picture" of the tech tree. In Civ III, that isn't a problem because everything you need is right there on the screen anyway. Dan

The thread:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=28934

	11-10-2001 01:36									#30
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I am very happy that Firaxis give us a good manual, because I hate such thin alibi manual, which are often released because of the DVD boxes.
well done Firaxis