05-10-2001 23:24									#31
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Oh yeah, and I really hope that all those mines are because of bad AI (like the railroad web problem in Civ2). Though I doubt Firaxis would be releasing screenshots that show game faults. But again, there does appear to be too much railroads again, unless railroads give some kind of trade/mineral/food bonus as in Civ1.

	05-10-2001 23:50									#32
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quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV ... There has to be another reason, maybe irrigation is super-powerful and fewer tiles are needed to supply enough food for a large city. Or mining of grasslands and plains gives a trade and mineral bonus while not hurting food production too badly. ...

industrialagesnumbertwo.jpg: Referring to the city Grand River, upper right on the screenshot, where there are only two irrigated tiles:

Revelation has just struck!! After certain development, perhaps refrigeration, in cities connected with highways or railroads, food distribution starts using the modern western model in which food does NOT have to be produced locally. All qualifying cities SHARE the produced food! Every city gets an equal surplus of food.
Elegant, but probably not the way it is done.

Rivers may also increase food production on adjacent tiles. In Civ:CtP you can mine any tile and it just increases production; it does not decrease food.

	06-10-2001 00:06									#33
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I've never been to concerned about the whole Multi-player thing ... but I do notice an icon on the new screen shot in the upper right hand corner that looks suspiciously like a "chat" or "dialogue" icon.

Indirect, circumstantial, evidence that MP might actually be in?

	06-10-2001 00:12									#34
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So what's the argument? That a size 14 city shouldn't be able to exist there. Assuming the city uses two irrigated tiles to the upper right, and the city has 11 unirrigated grassland tiles, one with what looks like wheat, it makes perfect sense to me that the AI or whoever is playing would mine the majority of the grassland rather than irrigate it if the choice was one extra food or one extra shield. With the extra food the city would be able to expand into other tiles, but those tiles look like swamp and mountain.

	06-10-2001 00:13									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe Revelation has just struck!! After certain development, perhaps refrigeration, in cities connected with highways or railroads, food distribution starts using the modern western model in which food does NOT have to be produced locally. All qualifying cities SHARE the produced food! Every city gets an equal surplus of food. Elegant, but probably not the way it is done.

I wish such a game dynamic existed as well. I never understood how with trains food wasn't shared between cities. I don't have any idea of how to implement it and doubt its in Civ3, but we can always hope

quote: Rivers may also increase food production on adjacent tiles. In Civ:CtP you can mine any tile and it just increases production; it does not decrease food.

There are a ton of mines, next to and not next to rivers. It seems too many to be be just that. Though it is a good idea and quite possibly true. Damn I'd like to see a terrain chart.

	06-10-2001 00:29									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Meyer I've never been to concerned about the whole Multi-player thing ... but I do notice an icon on the new screen shot in the upper right hand corner that looks suspiciously like a "chat" or "dialogue" icon. Indirect, circumstantial, evidence that MP might actually be in?

Nope. Dan said that thing in the upper-left was the advisor button. The "Aa" button next to it is the Civilopedia and the one to the left of that is Preferences.

	06-10-2001 00:42									#37
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did you ever whine about darwins voyage?

i didnt think so.

	06-10-2001 00:47									#38
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quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV But their mining grassland. What are you going to do mine buffalo and wheat? Most mineral resources would only be found in hilly or mountainous terrains, not grasslands and plains. Besides that it can be shown on the map with special resources being shown on top of the mines, so there can't be special resources unless we can see them Oh yeah, and I really hope that all those mines are because of bad AI (like the railroad web problem in Civ2). Though I doubt Firaxis would be releasing screenshots that show game faults. But again, there does appear to be too much railroads again, unless railroads give some kind of trade/mineral/food bonus as in Civ1

I still think theyre outposts, not mines. Outposts are needed to harvest any resource outside of your city radius. This includes all three types of resources: strategic, luxury and bonus. These arent mines for just minerals in hills. I think that they were built to harvest resources before city radius was large.

Also, you hope the AI is still stupid about terrain improvement? I hope it was a bonehead playtester who did that, not a stupid AI.

	06-10-2001 00:52									#39
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First off, you should use the words "culture border" or "civ border" instead of "city radius".

Secondly, where did you hear that a mere "bonus" resource (wheat, etc.) had the same harvesting requirements as strategic and luxury resources. If this is true, then it's new to me.

Thirdly, those structures appear on almost every grassland tile, many of which do not contain any special resources whatsoever, so they cannot merely be colonies (not "outposts", by the way).

I would submit that the structures in question are the Civ3 version of farmland.

	06-10-2001 01:03									#40
	Some info from Dan... Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

For those of you who do not visit OTHER Civ3 forums, Dan mentioned this regarding the city info boxes over at civfanatics:

quote: Originally posted by Psy Just noticed that a small number appears just to the right of the city name. E.g. 4 are displayed next to "Oil Springs" and 2 are displayed just right to "Grand River". Anybody have an idea of what they mean? Maybe they are showing how many turns till the city will grow again?! That would be a nice feature -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are correct. The first number is how many turns until the city grows, while the bottom number is how many turns until the city finishes whatever it's currently producing. Also, though the screen of the week doesn't indicate it, the large city size number to the left is color-coded, so you can easily see if the city is growing, stagnant, or starving. Dan Firaxis Games, Inc.

	06-10-2001 01:05									#41
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Well, the thing about colour coding is new, but I think we had a pretty good idea about the other two things.

	06-10-2001 01:07									#42
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quote: Originally posted by HalfLotus Also, you hope the AI is still stupid about terrain improvement? I hope it was a bonehead playtester who did that, not a stupid AI.

Sorry, I worded poorly, I meant hope it's not AI and there is a bonus to mining the terrain, that would mean that either there is a reason to improve in such a way, whether player or AI.

They are mines, not outposts. Dan confirmed it in past screenshot discussion thread.

	06-10-2001 01:08									#43
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse First off, you should use the words "culture border" or "civ border" instead of "city radius". Secondly, where did you hear that a mere "bonus" resource (wheat, etc.) had the same harvesting requirements as strategic and luxury resources. If this is true, then it's new to me. Thirdly, those structures appear on almost every grassland tile, many of which do not contain any special resources whatsoever, so they cannot merely be colonies (not "outposts", by the way). I would submit that the structures in question are the Civ3 version of farmland.

First off, try not to let my imperfect Civ3 vocabulary offend you.
Perhaps bonus tiles don't need colonies, but the other two do. A few of the structures have specials in them. One has wheat, and a few others that I dont recognize. There is no way in hell that those things are farmland.

Dan? **knocks on monitor** You in there? Wanna help sort this out? I know he said they were mines before, but what does a colony look like? Is there one in a screenshot somewhere?

	06-10-2001 01:09									#44
	Re: Some info from Dan... Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Stuie For those of you who do not visit OTHER Civ3 forums, Dan mentioned this regarding the city info boxes over at civfanatics:

There aren't other forums, just people with large imaginations

	06-10-2001 02:11									#45
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Halflotus - this week's pic does show mines everywhere as Dan had confirmed a while back. I did find a picture with a colony: http://www.civ3.com/images/screenshots/revolt.jpg - it's in the bottom right corner 'Egyptian colony - Iron'.

Edit - fixed link (I think)

Last edited by down th' pub on 06-10-2001 at 08:48

	06-10-2001 03:36									#46
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The pic didn't show but a small portion of the image for me.

	06-10-2001 03:44									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba D*mnit!! WTF has the 'Theory of Evolution' ever done for advancing the human race? What great piece of technology has been developed by this knowledge? What disease has been cured by its application? The only thing it has EVER produced is debate. It has no practical use WHATSOEVER.

Incorrect, the theory of evolution meant we have investigated the mechanisms of how heredity works, which resulted in fields such as molecular genetics or biochemistry. The implications of this theory have been tremendous, including great backup to the scientific method, a knowledge of our origins that people hundreds of years ago could not concede and unprecedented strides forward in medical science. I think you ought to retract your comment!

But back to civ3 stuff, you are right, I don't think this screenshot really lends us any more data. The resources look familiar; gold, rubber, beaver, cattle, deer, wheat, and this white powder that I suspect is saltpetre (see previous threads). It does show us some of the city names of the Iroquois, but this isn't really particularly interesting information in itself...and we have heard of battlefield medicine and theory of evolution as minor wonders.

	06-10-2001 08:09									#48
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anyone else has this?

i always want to push one of the buttons on these
screenshots to see more of the game. i.e. go to
different menu's
never works though

	06-10-2001 09:29									#49
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse I would submit that the structures in question are the Civ3 version of farmland.

I hope you're right. So many mines would make the game downright silly.

quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV They are mines. Dan confirmed it in past screenshot discussion thread.

I hope he's wrong. So many mines would make the game downright silly!

Just south-east of Grand River, there is one that looks a little different from the others. Maybe that's a mine and the rest are farmland? I certainly hope so.

	06-10-2001 09:47									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Falconius I hope he's wrong. So many mines would make the game downright silly! Just south-east of Grand River, there is one that looks a little different from the others. Maybe that's a mine and the rest are farmland? I certainly hope so.

What kind of sign would it be when the only person who actually has access and has played Civ3 doesn't know what the terrain imprvements are? Yeah it is silly, I really hope there's a good reason for it, some kind of serious food/trade/mineral bonus.

The different mines have resources on them, thats why they look different. There is one with wheat, below that is a cow I think. Resources are superimposed over terrain improvements, so unlike Civ2, blind dumba$s' like me won't lose sight of gems underneath the railroaded jungle.

	06-10-2001 09:55									#51
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I must say, I also am not very fond of the way the irrigation graphics appear, but who knows, maybe they're cooler in person.


As for dynamic models, I think it's wrong to have a civ supporting the army, and the cities globally instead of locally from the very beginnning.

That is a major economic and social change that should advance together with science and maybe governments.

Before the industrial revolution, the consumer good were indeed processed and consumed by the same city / area that raised them.


As for army, many periods are different. Ancient eras have local armies. Empires and Monarchies usualyl had a centralised army.

Feudalism meant non centralised army, but rather army that each knight had that would join together when hired by a king.

Then the armies became unified again.

I say - let it change with ages.

Ancient Era - Local Army, Local Agriculture, Local Science
Classical Era - Central Army, Local Agriculture, Local Science
Medeval Era - Local Army, Local agriculture, Local Science
Englightment Era - Centralised Army, Local Agriculture, Local Science.
Industrial Era - Centralised Army, Centralised Agriculture, Local Science
Modern Era - Everything Centralised.

	06-10-2001 11:54									#52
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quote: Originally posted by aaglo Oh yes, a counter question: WTF has religion ever done for advancing the human race?

Morality and accountability for one's actions to name two things.

And to be honest, it doesn't even bother me that it is in the game. I just like to stir things up a bit when it comes to this topic.

And now: Yes! I love the way the rails and roads look. And all of the graphics have been improved by leaps and bounds.

	06-10-2001 17:19									#53
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quote: Originally posted by alva848 anyone else has this? i always want to push one of the buttons on these screenshots to see more of the game. i.e. go to different menu's never works though

LOL yeah. I have been looking too deeply at the screenshots before and actually moved to press one of the buttons. DOH!

Siro, I think the one thing you have to remember is that these pictures are compressed to jpg and there is a certain amount of loss to image quality. The real thing will look more crisp, and I think the size of these screenshots has been shrunk from a higher res.

	07-10-2001 08:14									#54
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No response to my eras idea???

	07-10-2001 08:21									#55
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Good work, Sirotnikov , but I'm afraid if it isn't in the game already, it won't be in by the time it goes gold...

EDIT: They said it will cost 1 gold to maintain the units, and since all the gold is pooled, I assume the armies are going to be centralized all the time.

	07-10-2001 09:37									#56
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I always thought that the way your civ supports units should be dependent on your government/econ type.

But I can't say that I am disappointed with gold being the new supporting resource. Raw materials just never made sense as the primary army supporter- even though they are a necessary part- but gold is better IMHTGO.

	07-10-2001 20:42									#57
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory I agree Theory of evolution has done alot in terms of speculation and debate. But honestly, it has had no effect on the way modern society develops. Nor has it benefitted society..atleast not directly anyway.

I agree that the Church has done alot in terms of speculation and debate. But honestly, it has had no effect on the way modern society develops. Nor has it benefitted society..atleast
not directly anyway.