05-10-2001 17:43									#1
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It's not very exciting - I was happier when we got several at a time... But here it is:

http://www.civ3.com/images/screensh...esnumbertwo.jpg

	05-10-2001 17:57									#2
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Yeah.
Somebody (maybe it was you) mentioned in one of the wonder-threads that there are perhaps two wonders being built in those cities: battlefield medicine and theory of evolution.

Edit: yes, it was you.

	05-10-2001 18:02									#3
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quote: Originally posted by aaglo Yeah. Somebody (maybe it was you) mentioned in one of the wonder-threads that there are perhaps two wonders being built in those cities: battlefield medicine and theory of evolution.

Guilty as charge! That was me.

You know, since the game is going to require 1024x768 screen resolution, I really really wish they'd be kind and generous enough to show us some 1024x768 screenshots. These 800x600 shots are hard on the eyes when trying to pick out every last detail.

	05-10-2001 18:08									#4
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D*mnit!! WTF has the 'Theory of Evolution' ever done for advancing the human race? What great piece of technology has been developed by this knowledge? What disease has been cured by its application?

The only thing it has EVER produced is debate. It has no practical use WHATSOEVER.

	05-10-2001 18:10									#5
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The only reason why I mention this here is because it is in the screenshot.

I really don't know what it is (a wonder?), so I can't REALLY comment too much about its inclusion in the game. But it seems silly to have Temples and The Theory of Evolution all in the same city.

But then again, this is realistic, no?

	05-10-2001 18:10									#6
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Am I seeing visions or have they darkened the pink/purple color or is this a completely different color??

	05-10-2001 18:21									#7
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quote: D*mnit!! WTF has the 'Theory of Evolution' ever done for advancing the human race?

Theory of evolution has generated a lot of work for scientists, anthropologists, archeologists, ********logists and fundamentalists. It has also given a reasonable explanation for the variety of different species.
If in the game there are wonders related to the religion, there definitely must be wonders related to somewhat the opposite.


Oh yes, a counter question: WTF has religion ever done for advancing the human race?

	05-10-2001 18:28									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba D*mnit!! WTF has the 'Theory of Evolution' ever done for advancing the human race?

Uh, what did the Colossus do? It was a big statue; it fell down in an earthquake relatively soon after its completion. At least the Theory of Evolution advanced human knowledge.

That said, I think all of the wonders are supposed to be symbolic of human achievements; they do not necessarily represent artifacts that have some practical purpose. The pyramids in Egypt did not really supply grain, but they are representative of a human accomplishment that was performed by a society that also happened to be the breadbasket of the ancient european world.

	05-10-2001 18:35									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Wexu Am I seeing visions or have they darkened the pink/purple color or is this a completely different color??

Nope, you're wrong there's BOTH pink (yuck!) and dark purple. (yummy!)

	05-10-2001 18:43									#10
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quote: Originally posted by aaglo Theory of evolution has generated a lot of work for scientists, anthropologists, archeologists, ********logists and fundamentalists.

What's behind the *s?

Oh yeah - I haven't been following this forum and breaking news until recently, so excuse me if this has been said before, but I like the roads and railway lines! They go in nice sweeping curves and the railway junctions are at sensible, train-friendly angles.

And since the pink is in general the French, and this civ is the Iroquois, I think we can say that the pink is probably still in.

	05-10-2001 18:45									#11
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By looking at the lower lefthand corner of the screenshot there is the map of the world. Now; look at the number of those purple cities!!! That "might" be an indicator of some crummy bureaucracy model!
In SMAC an empire of that size was almost uncontrollable (with low efficiecy setting). But on the other hand, the screenshot doesn't show what is in the cities...

	05-10-2001 18:46									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Chowlett What's behind the *s?

It's my password for my workstation

	05-10-2001 18:56									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba D*mnit!! WTF has the 'Theory of Evolution' ever done for advancing the human race? What great piece of technology has been developed by this knowledge? What disease has been cured by its application? The only thing it has EVER produced is debate. It has no practical use WHATSOEVER.

It's not so gruesome as all that. It encouraged people to look beyond a fairly limited, static view of creation A lot of people don't like it because it seems to denigrate human dignity, but that's thinking. Human beings exist in relationship, and human value come from relationships with other humans or God. So let God out of your !

Dang I like these new smilies.

	05-10-2001 18:59									#14
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Not to interrupt your debate, but I must say that I am still disappointed that the roads and railroads are just painted on top of forests. How hard would it be to add some imaging to have the roads look like they cut into the forests? They change the mountain roads, now forest roads need to be fixed.

	05-10-2001 19:05									#15
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The viewpoint thus gained allowed MC Hawking to rise to fame with his hit single "F*ck the Creationists". See my sig for details.

	05-10-2001 19:07									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba D*mnit!! WTF has the 'Theory of Evolution' ever done for advancing the human race? What great piece of technology has been developed by this knowledge? What disease has been cured by its application? The only thing it has EVER produced is debate. It has no practical use WHATSOEVER.

Err.. It's fundamentally altered the Human Race's opinion of itself..

Prior to Darwin people considered themselves to be Unique chosen people of God. Afterwards we realised we're just a product of evolution like all the other animals - nothing special.

In producing evidence that made it's basic truth undeniable, it also enshrined science above religion. Reducing religions power over government has led to all the wonderful technological advances that we have today..

I think that's fairly "wonder"ful..

	05-10-2001 19:07									#17
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I still don't get all these mines. Top right of the screen is Grand River, size 14, yet there is no irrigation, how? Why is all this grassland mined? What are the baseline resources of grasslands and plains and what benefit does mining grasland give?

Well, although the worker unit doesn't change in name from the ancient worker, they do appear upgraded as they're now wearing lumberjack clothing. I'd like to see bulldozers and backhoes for modern workers, but I guess for a single unit, that's asking too much for a small icon.

What's with the web of railroads also? Do railroads give a trade or mineral bonus? Why surround a city with them then?

Well, enough griping. The graphics look crisp and organic. I hope combined with animations and sound it looks even better. The interface looks pretty good too as it is pretty minimal, yet appears functional.

Oh yeah, purple has abut ~40 cities, I've had SMAC empires that large as the Drones and Univ. without problem. I never played with a low efficiency faction though.

	05-10-2001 19:10									#18
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Theory of Evolution is a renamed Darwin's voyage. No one complained about Darwin in Civ2, so why complain now?

Can you guys take the evolution debate to the OT forum?

	05-10-2001 19:19									#19
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Regarding Anunikoba's remarks:

quote: D*mnit!! WTF has the 'Theory of Evolution' ever done for advancing the human race?

Wow... are you kidding me ref?

It did the following:

1) Althered people's perception of the universe (as gremalkin pointed out);
2) Made people rethink many religious theories, particularly Genesis;
3) In practical terms, we wouldn't have bio-genetic science without it;
4) I think it brought about more ethnic tolerance as people came to realize that we all races derived from the same species, and that genetically, we are very very similar;

I'm sure there are many, many more changes that it made. It terms of importance, it can be better described as "monumental".

Regarding the screenshot:

At first, I wasn't really impressed with it, but as I gave it a better study, I really like how realistic the modern highways look. Very nice attention to detail there.

I also noticed that the roads hide behind mountains. Again... very nice attention to detail.

It's nice to see that you can create huge empires. Who ever captured that screenshot had quite an impressive civilization going.

	05-10-2001 19:22									#20
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In what way is questioning as to whether the Theory of Evolution should be included as a wonder in civ3 off-topic?

	05-10-2001 19:23									#21
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Oh... and btw,

I'm wondering if the Firaxian that created that empire is about to invade his neighbour, who is coloured blue... He seems to have captured a large portion of that continent, and strategically, he seems to be on a good defensive standing... good enough maybe to be in a position to launch a massive assault?

	05-10-2001 19:28									#22
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quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV I still don't get all these mines. Top right of the screen is Grand River, size 14, yet there is no irrigation, how? Why is all this grassland mined? What are the baseline resources of grasslands and plains and what benefit does mining grasland give?

I'm too wondering all those mines on grassland.. Strange.

	05-10-2001 19:43									#23
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quote: Originally posted by tniem Not to interrupt your debate, but I must say that I am still disappointed that the roads and railroads are just painted on top of forests. How hard would it be to add some imaging to have the roads look like they cut into the forests? They change the mountain roads, now forest roads need to be fixed.

I totally agree. That was also my first reaction, it looks so fake to have those things painted right on top of the trees.

Now that I think about it, what did Civ2 do?

I also really hope that they are fulfilling their promise in making 4 (or 5?) different sets for each region of the world for industrial age and modern age. I don't want to see the city graphic homogenization we saw in Civ2.

	05-10-2001 20:17									#24
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quote: Originally posted by aaglo Oh yes, a counter question: WTF has religion ever done for advancing the human race?

Does Western Civilization ring a bell



I agree Theory of evolution has done alot in terms of speculation and debate. But honestly, it has had no effect on the way modern society develops. Nor has it benefitted society..atleast not directly anyway.

	05-10-2001 20:25									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Barshy I totally agree. That was also my first reaction, it looks so fake to have those things painted right on top of the trees. Now that I think about it, what did Civ2 do? I also really hope that they are fulfilling their promise in making 4 (or 5?) different sets for each region of the world for industrial age and modern age. I don't want to see the city graphic homogenization we saw in Civ2.

It doesn't look as bad as in Civ 2, but it doesn't look that good either. Roads should go through the forests, not on top. It seems like a little thing, but it always bugged me in Civ 2.

Completely agree about the different city sets in the modern ages. I hated it when the distinctions got wiped out in Civ 2. It's not even realistic. New York looks different from Shanghai, which looks different from Mexico City, same today as ever. Break free from homogenization!

	05-10-2001 20:28									#26
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Sorry but you cant burden the SW bye making specific graphics for each civ. You dont want this game to take up 2GB of space do you

	05-10-2001 21:40									#27
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quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV I still don't get all these mines. Top right of the screen is Grand River, size 14, yet there is no irrigation, how? Why is all this grassland mined? What are the baseline resources of grasslands and plains and what benefit does mining grasland give?

I think some (or all) of the mines are the outposts or whatever that harvest special resources, ie-iron,gold, etc.. Just a guess though.

	05-10-2001 21:49									#28
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory Sorry but you cant burden the SW bye making specific graphics for each civ. You dont want this game to take up 2GB of space do you

Not for each civ, though that does have some appeal. I meant for each civ style (Far Eastern, Classical, etc.). And I think you really overestimate the amount of space this would take up.

	05-10-2001 22:54									#29
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That swampy irrigation look still bugs me.

	05-10-2001 23:22									#30
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quote: Originally posted by HalfLotus I think some (or all) of the mines are the outposts or whatever that harvest special resources, ie-iron,gold, etc.. Just a guess though.

But their mining grassland. What are you going to do mine buffalo and wheat? Most mineral resources would only be found in hilly or mountainous terrains, not grasslands and plains. Besides that it can be shown on the map with special resources being shown on top of the mines, so there can't be special resources unless we can see them

There has to be another reason, maybe irrigation is super-powerful and fewer tiles are needed to supply enough food for a large city. Or mining of grasslands and plains gives a trade and mineral bonus while not hurting food production too badly.

What I think is needed for an answer to this is the resource breakdown of tiles and what bonus improvements give to them (like the Civ2 fold out terrain chart). Such a chart I doubt we'll see before release though