06-10-2001 03:03									#1
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I noticed on the new civ of the week, the Iroquois, that their capital city is Salamanca. This is a Spanish city, what on earth is it doing as the Iroquois capital? Would someone care to explain this to me? Is it a practical joke?

	06-10-2001 03:08									#2
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That is Salamanca, New York. Close to Cuba
In the same state you can find Rome, Utica, Troy, Syracuse, Amsterdam and Kingston(!). I might have picked Toronto, but this is not so bad a choice.

	06-10-2001 03:09									#3
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Apparently it was a city in New York that the Iroquois actually owned. Not a reference to the Spanish Salamanca.
Whether or not it is appropriate as the Native American capital I am unsure of.

	06-10-2001 03:11									#4
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That just shows how stupid it was picking the Iroquois! They didn't even have proper cities, just minor settlements which were even given european names...

	06-10-2001 03:16									#5
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From http://wnyrails.railfan.net/sal_home.htm

quote: Salamanca is located within the land of the Seneca Indian Reservation and until the early 1860s its only inhabitants were Indians. When the Erie built its line though here, there was but a single water tank representing "civilization." Salamanca was originally named "Bucktooth", after the crooked teeth of an old Indian who provided fish to the early settlers. The names was changed to Salamanca in honor of the Sig. Don Jose de Salamanca, the Marquis of Salamanca Spain and an early investor in the Atlantic & Great Western Railway which had its eastern terminus in Salamanca..

Perhpas not all Spaniards were as wicked as some posters pretend they were.

	06-10-2001 03:17									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Wernazuma III That just shows how stupid it was picking the Iroquois! They didn't even have proper cities, just minor settlements which were even given european names...

The recent civ of the week section reveals that the Iroquois now represent all native Northern Americans Wern.

	06-10-2001 03:25									#7
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I am wondering, does this mean that we will never get to see the Spanish in an expansion pack?
After all, having two Salamanca's won't do!

	06-10-2001 03:29									#8
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Then f****** change the name. Have you even forgotten how to play Civ2? Remember the "Rename" button or even the list of default city names in the text file? Salamanca is no more or less wrong (or right) than anything else, so change it to Toronto if you want or JeepersCreepers or something else.

	06-10-2001 03:34									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Ribannah I am wondering, does this mean that we will never get to see the Spanish in an expansion pack? After all, having two Salamanca's won't do!

Why not. Do you know how many cities in the world that has the same name?
Frankfurt,
Olsbo,
...,
and so on

Oh, and Salamanca being a city of Iroquois (Appeared in the same color as Iroquois on some screens so I made a search.) was the fact that pushed down Spanish to the clue section of the Civs Included just the facts thread.

	06-10-2001 03:49									#10
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Certainly not convinced by Salamanca as a capital city name for the Iroquois. It is certainly Spanish!

	06-10-2001 04:36									#11
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I just asked around. It seems that the Iroquois (or at least the Mohawk) would prefer Hochelaga (Montreal) as their capital.

	06-10-2001 08:43									#12
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Did you ask all of them?

Anyway, this is like putting Bagdad as the capital of the Babylonians.

And in case you haven't realised yet, Rib, it shows the influence of the Spanish civilization in today's world, greater in any case than that of Iroquois, even in their own ground!

The Iroquois haven't even suceeded in keeping their citiy names alive.

	06-10-2001 10:04									#13
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even if the iroquois represent all native north american tribes they have no right to be in. At first IMHO there were more important tribes (Cherokee, Dakota et al.) and on the other hand: what have they contributed?

If any (originally) non urban society deserves to be in it can be only the Mongols! (Sorry Fiera, won't jump on the Spanish train this time )

	06-10-2001 18:01									#14
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quote: Salamanca was originally named "Bucktooth", after the crooked teeth of an old Indian who provided fish to the early settlers. The names was changed to Salamanca in honor of the Sig. Don Jose de Salamanca, the Marquis of Salamanca Spain and an early investor in the Atlantic & Great Western Railway which had its eastern terminus in Salamanca..

Why not call the city Bucktooth in Civ3 then? Then it will at least be named after an Indian, not after some European rich boy...

	06-10-2001 18:11									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf Why not call the city Bucktooth in Civ3 then? Then it will at least be named after an Indian, not after some European rich boy...

Tell that to Firaxis. It looks like they didn't want to waste fifteen minutes reading a book or (even easier) searching the web.

	06-10-2001 21:17									#16
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What are the subsequent cities going to be called? If the civ is supposed to be an amalgam of all North American tribes are we going to see Little Bighorn as an Iroquios city?

However, if they use names like Toronto and Montreal it would be one less thing to edit when creating the Canadian civ replacement.

	06-10-2001 23:46									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Ribannah After all, having two Salamanca's won't do!

At least they're different cities with the same name. Whereas in Civ2 the English city of York, the Viking city of Jorvik and the Roman city of Eboracum were all exactly the same place.

	07-10-2001 01:34									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Snapcase At least they're different cities with the same name. Whereas in Civ2 the English city of York, the Viking city of Jorvik and the Roman city of Eboracum were all exactly the same place.

This happens quite a few times. The Roman city of Neapolis and the extra city name of Naples. Lutetia and Paris, Londinium and London, there was a Russian one as well, but I can't remember what it was (Tiflis and Tblisi IIRC), and some of the German ones from Civ1 are not German, not now anyway. Konigsberg (Kaliningrad, Russia) and Salzburg (Austria). I think York pops up the most times though.

	07-10-2001 01:38									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Fiera And in case you haven't realised yet, Rib, it shows the influence of the Spanish civilization in today's world, greater in any case than that of Iroquois, even in their own ground!

Ahh, but "Hochelaga Taxi Co." is the largest taxi service on the island, and "Hochelaga" is even the name of a parliamentary district...

	07-10-2001 01:51									#20
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PH, quite correct. You've played Civ2 a lot, uh? Others: Hispalis (Roman)/Seville, Caesaraugusta (Roman)/Zaragoza, Malaka (Carthaginian)/Malaga... there were a few more. Spanish cities in three different civs of civ2 (another display of Spanish might, just to annoy you-know-who )

	07-10-2001 01:56									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Jay Bee PH, quite correct. You've played Civ2 a lot, uh? Others: Hispalis (Roman)/Seville, Caesaraugusta (Roman)/Zaragoza, Malaka (Carthaginian)/Malaga... there were a few more. Spanish cities in three different civs of civ2 (another display of Spanish might, just to annoy you-know-who )

Yeah, I could have gone on forever. Lugdunum = Lyon as well. Yep, I have been playing civ2 since 1996 so I have pretty much remembered most of the city names I have seen...

	07-10-2001 02:06									#22
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1996? Wow, I wonder why haven't we met in other Civ2 forums prior to Apolyton!

More annoying Spanish might An Arabic city list was included in cities.txt. It includes Cordoba he, he. This makes it 4 civs in Civ2 with Spanish cities. MPS people, you were so nice..

	07-10-2001 02:12									#23
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How many here know the duplicate Roman names through general knowledge, and how many know them from games like Caesar 1-3?

The Caesar series gave me a wealth of knowledge on the issue.

	07-10-2001 02:15									#24
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Don't forget about Byzantium, Constantinopolis, and Istanbul; all the same city.

	07-10-2001 02:34									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch What are the subsequent cities going to be called? If the civ is supposed to be an amalgam of all North American tribes are we going to see Little Bighorn as an Iroquios city?

Probably. And maybe some cities will be named after various indian tribes, Kiowa, Sioux, Cherokee etc?

I think Firaxis will have to use some creativity considering the Iroquois didn't build cities..

	07-10-2001 02:51									#26
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SALAWHAT? This is ridiculous. Give it indian names, or indian sounding names... like the Sioux in Civ2...

No, not Bangalore!

	07-10-2001 04:47									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Fiera Anyway, this is like putting Bagdad as the capital of the Babylonians.

Why? AFAIK the only thing they have in common is that they were both destroyed, Hochelaga by the French (genocide on the 3500 citizens) and Baghdad by the Mongols.

quote: And in case you haven't realised yet, Rib, it shows the influence of the Spanish civilization in today's world ...

I have never claimed that the Spanish had little influence on the world.
My claim is that they had less influence than many other tribes on the advancement of human civilization, which is a totally different matter.

quote: The Iroquois haven't even suceeded in keeping their citiy names alive.

Akwesasne, Caughnawaga, Quinte, all of them that still exist are still on the map, while many Roman city names have long disappeared. Other Iroquois towns became part of larger cities (Toronto, Port Hope).

	07-10-2001 07:48									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Ribannah Why? AFAIK the only thing they have in common is that they were both destroyed, Hochelaga by the French (genocide on the 3500 citizens) and Baghdad by the Mongols.

Now, what on earth are you talking about???

As it's obvious that you didn't get my point, I will re-phrase it:

Having Salamanca as the capital of the Iroquois would be like having Istambul as the capital of the Byzantines. See?

quote: Akwesasne, Caughnawaga, Quinte, all of them that still exist are still on the map, while many Roman city names have long disappeared.

Just out of interest, could you give us the total population of the cities/villages you just mentioned, please?

	07-10-2001 09:13									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf I think Firaxis will have to use some creativity considering the Iroquois didn't build cities..

I was wondering how they would handle it myself. The Iroquois (as well as most Native American tribes) were nomadic. I think Firaxis will end up either making a lot up or taking tiny villages with Native American names, or perhaps the names of smaller tribes.

	07-10-2001 13:25									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Steve Clark Then f****** change the name. Have you even forgotten how to play Civ2? Remember the "Rename" button or even the list of default city names in the text file? Salamanca is no more or less wrong (or right) than anything else, so change it to Toronto if you want or JeepersCreepers or something else.

I'm going to change it to Bucktooth! Any civ with a capital called "Bucktooth" ipso facto does not deserve to be in.

No, what am I saying, I'm going to change the Iroquois to the Inca.