07-10-2001 03:38									#1
	Civ3 release date: American - European alliance Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Like most people here in Apolyton, besides being a big Civ fan, I have lots of other favourite games, including the Myst/Riven/Exile series.
Exile was released this May in Northern America, and would only be released in Europe on September. When the Myst community heard of this discrimination, a small group of americans offered to ship copies to european gamers, at no cost above the original game / shipping costs. This way, and thanks to a few people, many europeans, including myself, sent payment to the US, and were very happy to get their hands on a copy of Exile way before European release date.

So IF we could do the same for civ3, a lot of people (again, including myself) would really appreciate it. Obviously, the big problem with this has always been... how to get honest people in the US willing to do this for a bunch of fellow european civ3 fans, with no profit at all.
This would provide for us to get the game early, and not spend something like USD$100 to buy it from an american site (including the proper european tax).

Any thoughts about this?

	07-10-2001 03:42									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I think that if games companies are willing to shaft a population of people depending on where they live like this, especially for a duration of many months, then they should take to warez and acquire it by other means. Their financial loss, after all People, vote with your feet!

	07-10-2001 03:57									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

If only people on both sides of the Atlantic would agree to a boycott until it is accessable to Europeans and Americans.

	07-10-2001 04:21									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by red_jon If only people on both sides of the Atlantic would agree to a boycott until it is accessable to Europeans and Americans.

I don't think you'll have much luck convincing Civ fanantics (including me) to put off buying Civ3 until it's available in both regions. I have to be honest with you. Once Civ3 is on the shelves I'm picking it up whether or not Europeans can or not. Sorry.

That being said I would have no problem shipping a copy to someone in Europe at not cost. Of course, I'm from Canada and I don't know if I count in this alliance....?

	07-10-2001 04:39									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Simpleton Of course, I'm from Canada and I don't know if I count in this alliance....?

Sure, here in Europe we like Canadians much more than Americans

Anyway, this isn't some sort of North-American conspiracy to discriminate Europeans, hard/software is almost always released in one part of the world first, wether it's North-America, Europe, or Asia and you'll just need to learn to accept that.
Or you could act in a childish manner and download a warez copy... and be a thief...

	07-10-2001 04:46									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Simpleton I have to be honest with you. Once Civ3 is on the shelves I'm picking it up whether or not Europeans can or not. Sorry.

Obviously, I would do the same. My idea is not to deprive both americans and europeans of the game, exactly the contrary. The boycott idea is something to forget, let's focus on the "alliance" issue.

quote: Originally posted by Simpleton That being said I would have no problem shipping a copy to someone in Europe at not cost. Of course, I'm from Canada and I don't know if I count in this alliance....?

Of course you do count. By saying "american", I meant the whole northern continent.
And thanks, that's a start.

	07-10-2001 04:55									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I've not known many games that come out in Britain more than one or two weeks after the States. (The US versions are usually identical to the UK versions, and I guess the Australian, Canadian etc.) Usually they come out within days.

Isn't it really easy for for mainland Europeans to buy from UK online suppliers? I know of a good many people who bought Black and White that way.

	07-10-2001 05:17									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by GodSpawn I've not known many games that come out in Britain more than one or two weeks after the States.

(From Amazon.uk): Release Date: 28 December, 2001

quote: Originally posted by GodSpawn Isn't it really easy for for mainland Europeans to buy from UK online suppliers?

I'd very much like to do so, but as you can see, Amazon UK will release it only near the end of the year, and for some warranty/etc. issues, many sites refuse to ship to some countries, including mine.

	07-10-2001 07:00									#9
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i'll do it

i have been here for over two years and i think a few of you might actually know of me

	07-10-2001 11:02									#10
	Put an end to popups!

Ill wait until i get into Mexico the week 1-9 november. Ill check if the game is there, if its not, perhaps i would need some good man who send me the game.

	07-10-2001 11:43									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison I think that if games companies are willing to shaft a population of people depending on where they live like this, especially for a duration of many months, then they should take to warez and acquire it by other means. Their financial loss, after all People, vote with your feet!

You vote with your feet by boycott, not robbery.

	07-10-2001 11:57									#12
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

@pgm
I like your idea

	07-10-2001 12:08									#13
	Full PM-box? Change here!

i think i know how we could do this

instead of trying to send cash, you could send amazon.com gift certificates

they should be exempt from the VAT tax (correct me if i am wrong), and there wouldn't be a need to transfer money at all, you send two gift certificates, one for the price of the game (including shipping to the US location, but if that is split between many gamers it wouldn't be much) and then another gift certificate for the price of shipping it from the US to your location in europe, while this would require the person in the US to put up cash to pay for the shipping charges they would get their money back for those shipping costs in amazon.com gift certificates

does that sound like a good idea?

	07-10-2001 12:19									#14
	Yup... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

That sounds like a good idea, Korn. Althought I am not sure of the real logistics, it does sound like the best way to conduct the transaction without exchanging real money... cuts down on the "I got screwed" factor.

	07-10-2001 12:58									#15
	Tired of ads?

Is there any official info about the release date in europe? Release dates from online shops can never be trusted. I hope for some 5 days delay or so.

And if it is longer, then i hope for logistic reasons because when i bought Black and White here in Switzerland, i was able to do so one or two days after the North American release but the shop wasn't allowed to sell it. The shops should have kept it to wait for the official european release date! I'm talking of the localized version, not an import one. Luckily one shop 'forgot' about this restriction and sold me and many others a copy.

btw: If you are living in Switzerland (or are willing to travel), there is a good import shop: 'PCJoy' (aka 'Center-Shop'). The prices for imported games are high (about 100 CHF i would guess for Civ3) but spoiling the game experience by downloading a warez copy is probably worse than the 30 CHF extra spent.

Greetings,

Rince

	07-10-2001 14:24									#16
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I wouldn't have a problem with shipping the game to any of my European CIV brethren. I have done this for a SMAX buddy who lived in Germany, where they didn't sell the Alpha Centauri expansion pack. So he sent me money, and I sent him the product.

The only thing is though: why don't you guys just order it online and have it shipped that way?

Also, we Americans have had to wait for European games to be released here too. Specifically, I had to wait for Europa Universalis, The Longest Journey, Independence War 1 and 2, Cossacks.

It does go both ways.

	07-10-2001 15:51									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba It does go both ways.

True, but its rather one-sided in favour of Americans.
I liked it when SMAC was released, as Australia was the first country to get it , but that situation is rare. Actually, that was the first time AFAIK. But even Europe/Asia doesnt get as many games released first as America does.

The best possible way to release Civ 3 would be a simultaneous release globally, but i dont think infogames has the financial power to pull off that sort of thing. It would be a logistical nightmare.

But anyway, for Civ 3, ive ordered it from America. Its the only way for me to get the LE which i really want

	07-10-2001 17:15									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

What reason is there to delay release in one region over another. It happens with films aswell. Why?

	07-10-2001 17:17									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui You vote with your feet by boycott, not robbery.

I vote by whatever means I see necessary.

	07-10-2001 17:20									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

if a pub refuses to serve you, do you steal their beer kegs?

	07-10-2001 17:25									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch if a pub refuses to serve you, do you steal their beer kegs?

How did you find out about that?? I didnt tell anyone!!

	07-10-2001 17:28									#22
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch if a pub refuses to serve you, do you steal their beer kegs?

Different situations require different treatments. If I cannot buy beer, how else would I acquire it?

	07-10-2001 18:32									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by PGM (From Amazon.uk): Release Date: 28 December, 2001 I'd very much like to do so, but as you can see, Amazon UK will release it only near the end of the year, and for some warranty/etc. issues, many sites refuse to ship to some countries, including mine.

Electronics Boutique are quoting an ETA of 16th November (which sounds more like it). In reality, both they and Amazon are guessing, and will continue to do so until shortly after its gone gold.

I still think the UK release will be within 1-2 weeks of the US one - I guess we'll know for sure soon enough (I hope!).

	07-10-2001 18:38									#24
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Different situations require different treatments. If I cannot buy beer, how else would I acquire it?

Let's see:

1. Raid your friend's fridge
2. Go to a boozer's party
3. Visit a brewery
4. Attend a beer tasting promo
5. Brew your own

	08-10-2001 04:49									#25
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Rince And if it is longer, then i hope for logistic reasons because when i bought Black and White here in Switzerland, i was able to do so one or two days after the North American release but the shop wasn't allowed to sell it.

Why couldn't the shop sell it if they have it? It seems like a dumb thing for them to have to do.

	08-10-2001 04:58									#26
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Simpleton Why couldn't the shop sell it if they have it? It seems like a dumb thing for them to have to do.

I have an acquaintance who runs a small-town bookstore. He said that he gets books before the official release date but he isn't allowed to read or sell them until that date by contract. Of course he takes a little peek at the books anyway But usually it's for legal reasons to answer your question.

	08-10-2001 05:06									#27
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hey I'm an American, and I may just join your alliance if it comes out for you guys in mid November. Not because I feel bad for any of you. But I want to finish BG2 and Giants before I get trapped by Civ.

Edit: In reply to Red John's post.

Last edited by Moral Hazard on 08-10-2001 at 08:16

	08-10-2001 05:54									#28
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Assur Sure, here in Europe we like Canadians much more than Americans

Well, I was going to offer to do it, but if this is the way you feel about us Americans, you can forget it.

	08-10-2001 06:39									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

i will definately participate in this "alliance", PROVIDED that i get the money for the game before i buy it. i can't afford to front that much. if you live in europe, and would like to do this, and feel you can trust me (you CAN, but if you don't know me, then i'd of course understand if you didn't trust me) then PM me to let me know, and i'll send you the required info. how i'd like to do it is you'd send the money for the game, i'd buy the game and ship it on my own money, then you'd send me the price of shipping after you recieved the game. i'd do it that way because 1) i can't afford to buy multiple copies of the game all at once on my own 2) i CAN afford the cost to send multiple copies and 3) i don't know exactly what the price of postage will be yet.

	08-10-2001 07:18									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by GodSpawn (The US versions are usually identical to the UK versions, and I guess the Australian, Canadian etc.)

Not so, not all the time at least. For one thing, some games (not too many) opt to change the spelling from American to Proper (not intended as an insult) English. Also, some games change to reflect obscure laws (American orange juice tastes disgusting because Americans spike it with caffeine. In Canada, you can do that with Coffee, tea, Cola (not all pop, just DARK COLAS), and very little else. I bet you didn't know about that little law).

I know for a fact that Dungeon Keeper 2 had a unique Canadian edition.

Now, I doubt that most would go to the trouble of converting between English-speaking countries. I just wanted to say that some do, some even have to, and this sort of thing might have something to do with a month's release-delay to Europe.