07-10-2001 04:54									#1
	Techs That You Won't Give Away? Got spare money?

Are there any techs that you hesitate to give away? Are they the same ones in every game or do they vary according to situation?

I find that I am hesitant to give the any tech that brings someone up to parity to myself in weapons or access to SPs that I want. I have on occasions given techs to the enemies of my enemies.

Doctrine Air Power
MMI
Orbital Spaceflight

are all ones that I don't give unless I'm ahead. Of course I guess if one wants a challenge it might be good to give out your techs.

One other question. Do play with steal technology on or off?

	07-10-2001 05:03									#2
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For me, it mostly depends on the specifics of the game I'm in. If, for example, I've got at least two submissives, I don't have a problem with giving away the farm (to the subs), on the thinking that between the three of us, we'll be able to consistently out-tech the other guys, even if my subs turn around and gift their new tech to the bad guys.

With only a single submissive, or none at all, about the only techs I'm leery about are Fusion and MMI.

-=Vel=-
PS: Only played a couple games with the techsteal option activated.....too combat oriented for my tastes....lol

	07-10-2001 05:53									#3
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I will generally trade any tech I have with the AI, as I can invariably put a tech to much better use than can the AI. In Multiplayer games, it is a case by case basis.
I generally play with techsteal on, just because that is the default.

	07-10-2001 06:10									#4
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I usually give away tech quite often, I try to keep loyal allies (even treaty) within one or two techs of me. The AI really aren't smart enough to make use of the super-powerfull techs, so I eagerly give away Env.Eco, Fusion, MMI.

Altough I accept most tech demands from allies/treaties (even unreasonable ones) I dont give tech in exchange for peace - unless I actually want peace.

	07-10-2001 07:06									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Ill give away anything to the AI except (and it escapes my mind what its specifically called) the tech that allows you to planet bust.

Multiplayer i almost NEVER give techs away, unless the trade is extremeley in favor of me

	07-10-2001 07:13									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I used to think giving any techs away was not a good idea, then I learned to use vassal factions as research engines, and like Vel says, in SP games the more you give away, the further your lead, even if you're betrayed. (By the way, I think Vel's referring to the 'Spoils of War' option...).

In 90% of SP games I can keep parity with the AI in the early game, which means I'm going to blow past them in the mid-game. When I see that I'm not going to be overrun I start my now favorite tech-festival. I give techs away like candy on halloween. I call up dumb AI's and give them pretty much all the tech I can. If we're in a treaty I ask to trade when they develop a new tech. If we're at truce or vendetta I just steal it.

What I've come to realize is that the worst thing in the world is a faction researching a tech that someone already has. My goal has become to have all factions researching new tech as soon as possible. By use of Pacts, probes and submissives this means that if the factions average 1 tech every 14 years, that's a tech for me every 2 years. Because a human can use the more advanced techs inverse-proportionally to how the AI can use the low-techs, the faster we all go up the tree, the faster I gain advantage.

This practice seems a bit misguided when you first jump out of the gate with your first few AI contacts...but it works at all stages of the game.

One side effect of the tech free for all is that I can keep my most threatening neighbors happy and off my back. Another side effect is that I can more effectively focus on defeating one faction at a time, making them tame pets sequentially.

So, my new policy in SP "Give away 90% of techs, and no techs barred". It's important to realize that this only works if : 1. You aren't extremely threatened, 2. You win the game aggressively, not sitting around letting the AI make use of the higher techs..because they do eventually understand how to use most of them...just ask anyone from the No-Crawlers MP game!

-Smack...Avenoct

	07-10-2001 07:16									#7
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In MP getting techs from me is like trying to get wine from a raisin....I put a probe in every base (at least) and steal as much as I can without giving anything. I don't trust the AI's in an MP game, so try to keep my submissive vassal AI's happy with base-gifts instead.

-S-

	07-10-2001 15:17									#8
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Uf...

Fusion Power
Doc: Air
Mind Machine Int.
Doc Flex
Any weapons tech
Pre Sentient Algorythms (or at least until I finish the Hunter Seeker )

etc.

	07-10-2001 15:26									#9
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I don't often give away techs anyway, but ones which I will definitely not give away include:

Pre-S Alg (at least before I finish building the Hunter-Seeker, although it's fun to give it to Roze and watch all her bases fall foul of the +4 Probe bug )
Doct: Flex if it's critical that I expand quickly to other continents (and when isn't it?)
Any weaponry tech that takes the AI or my opponent up to parity with me
Ind:Auto

I do, however, give away weapons tech to bring one side in a war up to parity with the other - I love playing off AI against AI. I also give away Orbital Spaceflight a lot more often than I should.

Has anyone ever noticed the sheer stupidity of the AI when asking for techs? For instance, in my last game Morgan hadn't even researched Neural Grafting (level 4, I think) and when i offered him a tech he asked for Sentient Econometrics (level 11)! Yeah, like I'm going to let him advance that far!

	07-10-2001 19:53									#10
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True, the AI almost always asks for one of your highest techs. It's a real pain when you are more than 3 techs or 2 'tiers' above the AI. However, once in awhile the AI asks for a fill-in tech. In my current game an AI asked for Industrial Economics when I had AMA and Synthetic FF. It was a rare chance to give them something they would have gotten for free from another AI.

-S-

	07-10-2001 23:59									#11
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Actually, in my current SMAC game, Morgan actually asked for a fill-in (Subatomic Theory or whatever, the one that gives you Skunkworks) as a second choice. I gave it to him, but he's still Ambivalent.

Don't you just hate it when that happens, by the way? You give the AI a multitude of techs or a base or something like that to get their mood up to Magnanimous (or, better, Submissive) and then you look at the Faction Profile screen seconds later and poof! back down to Ambivalent (or worse) they go! What a waste of time!

	08-10-2001 01:21									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

well i wont give away fusion MMI Pre sentient alg(never thought of the +4 rollover roze bug hahahaha) or superconductor. having fusion when the AI doesnt is really a good thing. besides after fusion comes organic superlube which means fusion laser. bad thing to give to the AI. MMI is especially bad before cyborg and cloudbase plus choppers (but the AI never uses them at least not MY AI). plus its a good idea to NEVER give cent meditation to deirdre unless for some reason you dont want the dome.

now that i think about it i should've been more careful when researching superstring theory in the middle of a war with roze...

	08-10-2001 02:29									#13
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I find the AI's are real suckers when it comes to cash gifts, just give them gifts in the range 100-200 and they are Magnanimous in no time... but unless you have complementary SE they'll hate you a little later.

	08-10-2001 03:49									#14
	Put an end to popups!

When it comes to giving away tech, I tend to stuff the AIs like turkeys...

The only tech I'm leery of is orbital spaceflight--anything that can give the stupid AI the ability to literally blow holes in my peaceful builder empire is something to be avoided. Dont mind airpower. Don't mind fusion. Could care less about MMI.

No Orbital. Never, never, never.

It's gotten to the point that once anyone has the two pieces of the orbital puzzle, I give everyone everything, and sit back and smile that the fastest of them will get orbital in, oh, about fifty years.

I put off researching it myself--in my most recent game, I just got quantum power, and will get--nanometallurgy?--in two years; one of the AIs is four years out from Orbital, and we're allied. I figure I'll pick up Orbital then, and have hoards of defense pods up in less than ten years...

Them AIs ain't bustin' me...

Last edited by The Mad Monk on 08-10-2001 at 05:19

	08-10-2001 04:12									#15
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Orbitals are much too important for me to delay researching space flight, then I give it to my friends, and send noodlesupplies to rushbuild their planetbuster prototype for them.
I also rushbuild their secret projects so I can get the tech quicker. Or if Zak and Morgan are in the race for the HSA, and I arent, I'll send supplies so Morgan can finish it first. I dont like the HSA much, but I dont like Zak getting it.
Buildings AI's SP's for them, altough expensive, does get the tech quicker, and its and ultimately builder way to do it.
(Building AI's planetbusters for them is probably just plain stupid, but I feel it adds flavour to the game...)

	08-10-2001 14:08									#16
	Techs That You Won't Give Away? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

You mean besides Threshold of Transcendence?

	08-10-2001 20:51									#17
	no checks and no techs! Enter the AD-FREE zone

maybe i'm not as enlightened as i should be, but i usually won't give them anything unless they'll hook me up right back. i'll trade techs with them with no problem, or buy techs off them if i have to. or, well, probe them of course. but i won't give them air power or fusion or anything that'll give them better weapons or armor. i don't need that kind of stress in my life. :-)

i just see it as the same in real life. most of the time you wouldn't give someone something in exchange for nothing, right? so unless i need to bribe them, or befriend them, they get NOTHING!

	09-10-2001 22:04									#18
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I'm pretty much in agreement with those who won't give away MMI, Orbital Spaceflight, or Air Power. I'm not big on giving away any Techs under a demand. I won't even trade the three mentioned above.

	12-10-2001 05:40									#19
	Remove this text

Ascent to Transcendence.