08-10-2001 01:16									#1
	Which of the current top 16 XP civs is LEAST deserving of being in the XP? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

vote!

	08-10-2001 01:29									#2
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Definitely the Byzantines, since they were basically a continuation of the Greek and Romans, just with cultural changes over time. I don't think the Byzantines really expanded after the 8th century or so. They just lost more and mor land until they were taken over by the Ottoman Turks in the 15th century. Its different from the U.S. and English scenario, as the U.S. was not built on top of the English.

	08-10-2001 01:44									#3
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WRONG!!!! They're not just a continuation of the Greeks and Romans, they became an independent empire which was succesfully (re)conquering the Mediteranean sea. They were eventually stopped by the Arabs and Turks but managed to survive 1000 years after the fall of Rome. And their architectural and cultural achievements made a huge impact on Europe and the Middle East.

	08-10-2001 01:48									#4
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Oh, and my vote goes to the Maya.

	08-10-2001 01:53									#5
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Got to be the Hebrews. They were/are just too small.

And "the Celts", what's that supposed to mean? It's a too wide concept IMO.

	08-10-2001 01:56									#6
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Well, from the Firaxis/Sid Meier's, not historical point of view, Byzantines definitely were not separate civilization. I mean, in game they should be treated as a mutation of the Roman or even better Greek civilization.

Actually, I see it game wise like this: Romans conquered Greeks. Then Romans lost their capitol - and because of that the Byzantines (i.e. Greeks) splitted from their Empire, with Constantinople as their new capitol.

I mean, it would be strange to play the game with separate civs of Greeks, Romans and Byzantines.

As for the real world, the reason why in Civ there should not be a separate Byzantine and Greek civilization is simply that there was never a time in history when a Greek civilization existed side by side with Byzantines - simply because they were the same.

	08-10-2001 03:22									#7
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byzantines
ndai...

	08-10-2001 03:26									#8
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I voted for the Mongols, and would have done so for the Vikings as well. While I certainly appreciate the enormous impact they had on history, I consider them both Barbarians and are thus covered by the Barbarians in Civ3. With the addition of the Barbarian "strongholds" in the game, I think this is more appropriate than ever. It sounds to me like the Barbarians in the game will now act more akin to how the Mongols and Vikings did, rather than them building cities and making scientific advances, etc.

After that, would have to nix the Celts.

Cheers.

	08-10-2001 03:29									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Martinus Well, from the Firaxis/Sid Meier's, not historical point of view, Byzantines definitely were not separate civilization. I mean, in game they should be treated as a mutation of the Roman or even better Greek civilization. Actually, I see it game wise like this: Romans conquered Greeks. Then Romans lost their capitol - and because of that the Byzantines (i.e. Greeks) splitted from their Empire, with Constantinople as their new capitol. I mean, it would be strange to play the game with separate civs of Greeks, Romans and Byzantines. As for the real world, the reason why in Civ there should not be a separate Byzantine and Greek civilization is simply that there was never a time in history when a Greek civilization existed side by side with Byzantines - simply because they were the same.

Well, if by Byzantines they are making a general reference to Eastern Orthodox Europeans, I would not begrudge them a place in the game. However, as a political entity, even after the fall of Rome in 476, the Eastern Empire was considered the Roman Empire, and briefly reconquered the homeland of Italy. There is not a definite point at which one can say it ceased to be Roman and became Byzantine...was much more fluid than that.

Cheers.

	08-10-2001 05:24									#10
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I think I voted Hebrew, but now that I think of it, the Celts should be scrapped. They're already represented enough in the British, French, and Germans.

And who voted for the Spanish?

	08-10-2001 05:27									#11
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OK...who voted Dutch...?

I voted Ethiopian...because, frankly...I don't see what they have achieved as a civilization...if I would even consider them a civ...

	08-10-2001 06:00									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Zopper OK...who voted Dutch...? I voted Ethiopian...because, frankly...I don't see what they have achieved as a civilization...if I would even consider them a civ...

The Aksumite Kingdom of the mid-to-late first millenium was one of the most powerful (and fascinating) nations on Earth; it existed in both Jewish and Christian manifestations, and in later years built some of the most incredible churches and temples on the planet. Genreally, Ethiopia remained the most powerful sub-Saharan civilization until a few decades ago, when things all went to hell following the assassination of Haile Selassie.

	08-10-2001 06:49									#13
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HOW DARE YOU VOTE AGAINST THE POLES

	08-10-2001 11:07									#14
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I personaly think that the Arabs are being overated so I voted for them...

	08-10-2001 11:45									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov And who voted for the Spanish?

That one is very easy to guess. Hint: begins with r, and ends with h