08-10-2001 08:23									#1
	Communism and culture Support Apolyton

As I understand it based on the information I've read, culture in general applies to each city individually and affects the borders, production squares used etc depending on what that city's culture points are.

I had a thought that maybe under communism, instead the culture points are pooled from all cities and then divided evenly between them. This means some cities would shrink in border size and others would expand and production squares would change maybe quite markedly. In other words, a switch to communism would cause a major upheaval to your civilization as it should be, and would give a real genuine alternative to other government types.

	08-10-2001 08:26									#2
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The way I understand it, culture borders do not affect your "city radius" or what tiles a city can work, they only show that you have influence over those tiles and have claim to their resources without building a colony.

	08-10-2001 08:29									#3
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quote: Originally posted by SteveJH The way I understand it, culture borders do not affect your "city radius" or what tiles a city can work, they only show that you have influence over those tiles and have claim to their resources without building a colony.

Oh, if that's true, that's a shame. I'd understood culture affected the tiles you worked on period.

Can anyone clear this up please?

	08-10-2001 09:26									#4
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as far as i understand it they are sticking with the same 21 square city radius, however you can only collect strategic resources and luxeries from either colonies connected to your cities or by building a road to those resources and having that resource fall within your borders

	08-10-2001 09:27									#5
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quote: Originally posted by SteveJH The way I understand it, culture borders do not affect your "city radius" or what tiles a city can work, they only show that you have influence over those tiles and have claim to their resources without building a colony.

It does.

	08-10-2001 09:42									#6
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Yes but only to a point (21 squares), correct UR?

	08-10-2001 09:46									#7
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quote: Originally posted by orange Yes but only to a point (21 squares), correct UR?

To a point? The city radius is *always* 21 squares.

	08-10-2001 09:53									#8
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No, the border expands, not the radii. The radius can only be fully worked when a city has their culture border to expand two tiles away from the actual city. If there are still resources that are not inside of ANY cultural border OR city radii you must build a road to it and a colony on it to exploit it. Also, the road must be connected to a system that makes it back to your capital.

	08-10-2001 09:57									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Christantine The Great No, the border expands, not the radii. The radius can only be fully worked when a city has their culture border to expand two tiles away from the actual city. If there are still resources that are not inside of ANY cultural border OR city radii you must build a road to it and a colony on it to exploit it. Also, the road must be connected to a system that makes it back to your capital.

I *think* what that means is that what I said is correct...correct? (IE are you supporting what Steve said or what I said?)

	08-10-2001 10:34									#10
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quote: Originally posted by orange I *think* what that means is that what I said is correct...correct? (IE are you supporting what Steve said or what I said?)

I skimmed through the last few posts and decided that people were getting culture borders and radii mixed up again so I decided what I posted would be fitting. Actually I don't have a clue what you people are talking about. It sounds like you are agreeing but you don't think you are. If you think about it, Steve said exactly what you said.

	08-10-2001 11:16									#11
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the city radius is always 21 squares, but you can only work tiles in your civ's borders.

so CULTURE affects your CIV BORDERS which in turn, affect a CITY RADIUS.

thats how i see it

	08-10-2001 11:27									#12
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Actually, i think Dan meantioned before that cities can initially only work 8 tiles in the city radius. After a while (probably thru culture) the city can harvest the full 21 squares. This is where they harvest food/shields for production/trade arrows... or their equivalent in Civ 3

The city border is completely different to this, though. It denotes the area where you can gather strategic or luxury resources without colonies, and where an invading army cant use roads and railroads.

	08-10-2001 15:55									#13
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Hey guys, sorry I havent read all of it, so I might be repeating.. but I think Cultures should overall vary by government (coefficient)
Communism would be strongest eg.

	08-10-2001 17:54									#14
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quote: Originally posted by TheRussianKing Hey guys, sorry I havent read all of it, so I might be repeating.. but I think Cultures should overall vary by government (coefficient) Communism would be strongest eg.

According to Dan, this won't be in, though in the editor you can decide which buildings a certain government can build, which can indirectly affect culture.

	08-10-2001 20:06									#15
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I don't see why culture would we evenly shared under communism. How can culture be shared?

	08-10-2001 21:18									#16
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You can only work squares inside your borders (aka city radii). City radii are affected by total culture points for that city. Cities do not always have 21 square work area. One square radius at 10 culture points, 2 square at 100, etc. (the exact numbers may be wrong.) When your city radii begin to overlap, you end up with a nice little border around your civ.

	08-10-2001 21:22									#17
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quote: Originally posted by HalfLotus You can only work squares inside your borders (aka city radii). City radii are affected by total culture points for that city. Cities do not always have 21 square work area. One square radius at 10 culture points, 2 square at 100, etc. (the exact numbers may be wrong.) When your city radii begin to overlap, you end up with a nice little border around your civ.

The city radii only expands with culture to 2 squares out (21 squares), but the culture border keeps expanding. You can't work tiles that are beyond your city radii but in your culture border, however you have claim to that land and it's resources and these borders do overlap to create a national border.

	08-10-2001 21:35									#18
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ok here is a few things

the maximum number of tiles a city in civ3 can work is 21 which corresponds to the civ2 city radius

what firaxis originally said was that you could work any visable square in the city radius regardless if they were in your cultural borders, the one exception is if those tiles are in another civ's cultural borders

from one of the screenshots it looks like firaxis may have changed the rules so that until your cultural borders expand you can only work the tiles directly around your city...has firaxis mentioned if this change is true?

also you can only collect a special resource if it is connected to your city and is inside of your cultural borders, or if it is in nuetral territory and has a colony on it, i am almost positive that you cannot build a colony in enemy territory, and that if your colony ever falls inside of any civ's territory that it disappears

	08-10-2001 21:44									#19
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quote: Originally posted by SteveJH The city radii only expands with culture to 2 squares out (21 squares), but the culture border keeps expanding. You can't work tiles that are beyond your city radii but in your culture border, however you have claim to that land and it's resources and these borders do overlap to create a national border.

sounds correct to me.

	08-10-2001 22:03									#20
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I read somewhere that the limit in the expansion of a border is about 8 squares. Is it true? And one of the wining strategy IS getting a 8 square cultural city and U win is it true too?

don't remember where I saw it...

	08-10-2001 22:11									#21
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i remember somethign abut 6 million cultural points or something, but Dan said it was a lot harder than it sounds.


sounds like a new OCC

	08-10-2001 22:14									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Rege I read somewhere that the limit in the expansion of a border is about 8 squares. Is it true? And one of the wining strategy IS getting a 8 square cultural city and U win is it true too? don't remember where I saw it...

I remember hearing somewhere that 80,000 cultural points in one city constitutes a cultural victory, but I don't know this for sure.

	08-10-2001 22:39									#23
	Re: Communism and culture Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Russell In other words, a switch to communism would cause a major upheaval to your civilization as it should be, and would give a real genuine alternative to other government types.

Good thought, Russell!

Finally realistic communism.