08-10-2001 21:15									#1
	probe-alicious, baby Get a bigger avatar today!

here's something for ya: how do you get past the hunter-seeker algorithm? can you do it with a high probe rating and a covert ops center in the base where you're building probe teams? domai built the h-s, and i REEEEEEALY want to probe him. but i don't want to waste time and money figuring out how if there's no way to do it. unfortunately i'm not playing roze or miriam. any thoughts on how to handle this?

	08-10-2001 21:50									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

depends if you have SMAX or not. If you don't, you're screwed, the HSA is the be all and end all of probe protection. If you have SMAX, then the only way to get past the HSA is to equip your probes with the logarithmic enhancement Special ability.

	08-10-2001 21:52									#3
	Algorithmic Enchancement Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The only thing that can counter HSA is Algorithmic Enchancement which would be avaible as an ability for your probe with the discovery of Digital Science. SMACX only. Nothing else works.

	08-10-2001 22:17									#4
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Or you can PB the base with the HSA

	08-10-2001 22:43									#5
	thanks, and more probe questions Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

oh yeeeaaahh, forgot about that. yes, i have SMAX, so i'll be able to do it. or hey, i could always just take out the base that built the HSA. that's gonna be tough without being able to use probies to disable his defenses...

MORE PROBE QUESTIONS:

1. so is the logarithmic (algorithmic?) enhancement 100% effective against the HSA? i don't recall ever having had to use it before since i've always built the HSA myself. heh.... that's what i get for playing on higher levels (thinker).

2. i know this issue has been discussed in the past on this board. but i'll ask it anyway since it's still unclear to me. defense probies. i like to have at least one probe team in every base (after yang downloaded my files on fusion power, i figure better safe than sorry). in times of war, i keep a regular probe team in the base to subvert enemy units as they approach, and i've also been building infantry-based probe teams and giving them some armor so they can defend against enemy probe actions. will the armor better protect my probie? or does it make absolutely no difference at all, and only the morale matters? is it a waste of money to put armor on a probe team? and is this excessive? i'm not talking about using them as support-free base defenders, just as defenders against other probe teams.

3. a dumb question: when i used a foil probe to download some techs from an enemy, i got the "we believe the base is protected by new security interlocks" or whatever message. what IS that? do i have that? how do i get that? how do i get by that? can i kill it?

since i've re-gotten into the game, i have so many questions. i'm trying to keep myself from posting 20 new threads per day to ask them all.

can't wait until my new strategy guide comes in the mail! yup, i ordered it.

	08-10-2001 23:02									#6
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Lets see


1. No I do not believe so just as pre-HSA many probe actions have a less than 100% success rate

2. armour is irrelevant when probes fight probes. Armour is only effective against conventional attack so you should only armour probes that may face that. Note that an armoured probe will still die with the last conventional unit if stacked

3. That appears every time that I try to probe a base for the second time for tech. I think its designed to make it harder to completely tech-rape a faction by repeatedly probing the same base over and over again. I don't know if the human player gets that in SP or if it is a feature of MP. All the security interlocks do is lower your chance of probe success and of the probe being compromised.

	08-10-2001 23:32									#7
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It appears that in SMAX, the Hunter-Seeker can be defeated by a probe as long as the probe's morale is high enough. Morale-boosters include:

- Getting a higher Probe rating on the SE tables.

- Building a probe at a base with a Covert Ops Center.

- Adding the Algorithmic Enhancement special ability to the probe.

- A particular team gaining experience from completed missions.

I've gotten past the HSA with a probe that didn't have Algorithmic Enhancement. The other factors all added up to something good enough for the job.

The thread "How to build free base denfense units" or something of that sort was a recent discussion/debate about armor on probes and the like.

	09-10-2001 00:08									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: I've gotten past the HSA with a probe that didn't have Algorithmic Enhancement. The other factors all added up to something good enough for the job.

Are sure about this? Because if this were true then the entire belief system will be overthrown.

	09-10-2001 01:04									#9
	Re: Algorithmic Enchancement Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by knowhow2 The only thing that can counter HSA is Algorithmic Enchancement which would be avaible as an ability for your probe with the discovery of Digital Science.

nanominiaturisation isn't it?

	09-10-2001 01:13									#10
	Algorithmic Enchancement Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: nanominiaturisation isn't it?

Yes of cause! Damn that manual (read under charts for Special Abilities - preq for Algorithmic Enchancement is digital science, but according the tech tree is nanominiaturisation). I might have to look that up at Datalinks.

	09-10-2001 03:40									#11
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quote: Originally posted by bobyk464 I've gotten past the HSA with a probe that didn't have Algorithmic Enhancement. The other factors all added up to something good enough for the job.

Are you sure you hadn't built the Nethack Nexus Secret Project. This SP gives the Algorithmic Enhacement feature for free to all probe teams that have Fusion reactors or better.

And to answer the question about success rates with AE vs the HSA, I beleive the chance of success = 1/2 that of success of a regular probe team if the faction did not have the HSA. In other words, if a regular probe team would have a 98% chance of success if they did not have the HSA, the AE probe vs the HSA would have a 49% chance of success.

I always stick the AE feature on probes as soon as I get it. 1/2ing the chance of failure is nice, although not critical on an elite probe.

	09-10-2001 06:11									#12
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Re: Armoring defensive probes or not?

There are at least two reasons why you may want to armor your defensive infantry probes. These are the probes you place in your bases to defend against enemy probes.

1) Armoring probes may help them defend against conventional units (it might happen even though you don't intend to use them for that). Also, your probes can be damaged significantly by enemy artillery barrages (or shelling from ships). Armor will help them resist this, which means that they will have more hit points left to defend against enemy probes.

2) As the game moves along some armor might be free or really cheap. If it's free then it is obviously stupid not to use it. If it's cheap you may want to take advantage of it anyway, especially if the base building the probes produces more minerals than the enhanced probe costs anyway.

	09-10-2001 07:33									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber I don't know if the human player gets ...[security interlocks on bases when probed more than once] in SP or if it is a feature of MP. All the security interlocks do is lower your chance of probe success and of the probe being compromised.

Security interlocks are a feature of MP. (But I got the 2nd tech at 50 % odds anyway, hah)

bc

	09-10-2001 09:07									#14
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I have SMACX v. 2.0.


Armor appears to make a very big difference in probe combat b/c it gives effect to the hit points of the reactor.

I just posted another thread on this topic.

Ned

	09-10-2001 17:36									#15
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oops, I did it again... Forgot about a captured SP.

Yeah, I had captured a base with the Nethack Terminus and forgot about it. I checked my probes, and they say "enhanced" even though I didn't equip them with the ability. That's what let me get by the Hunter-Seeker. Never mind...

	09-10-2001 18:10									#16
	Probe Destroy SP??? Full PM-box? Change here!

just a thought here from this discussion: is a completed SP considered a base facility in terms of Probe Sabotage actions? I don't think it is, but I wonder if a Probe can destroy an enemy SP? any thoughts on this one?

	09-10-2001 19:25									#17
	security interlocks Remove this text

quote: Security interlocks are a feature of MP. (But I got the 2nd tech at 50 % odds anyway, hah)

actually, i only play SP games, and i get that message after probing a base for techs. last night i think it appeared after i got one tech, although i could be wrong, it could have been after 2. anyway, looks like it happens in both MP and SP games, not just MP.

also, i was playing as roze (I LIKE ROZE!!!! SO THERE!) and the odds were still 50% with the interlocks on, even though my probe teams were good. so i think it's 50% no matter what.

ok, here's something else - i'm at "war" with yang (moron only has a few bases left, so it's pretty sad to still be fighting him). he made a new base and moved five units inside - 3 plasma garrisons and 2 laser squads (2-3-1). he also had 2 terraformers cruising around, in range of the base. so i total-thought-controlled the base, and got it! now, it was only 179 credits, and i got 5 units, plus 2 formers and the base itself. why was it so cheap? because it was a brand new base? i thought it was an incredible deal. so is it always a fixed amount for a base, regardless of the units inside?

	09-10-2001 19:40									#18
	Re: security interlocks Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Bella Hella ok, here's something else - i'm at "war" with yang (moron only has a few bases left, so it's pretty sad to still be fighting him). he made a new base and moved five units inside - 3 plasma garrisons and 2 laser squads (2-3-1). he also had 2 terraformers cruising around, in range of the base. so i total-thought-controlled the base, and got it! now, it was only 179 credits, and i got 5 units, plus 2 formers and the base itself. why was it so cheap? because it was a brand new base? i thought it was an incredible deal. so is it always a fixed amount for a base, regardless of the units inside?

have you checked his SE? if he has knowledge on then all his stuff would be cheaper (plus you're the angels). apart from that sometimes the cost is connected to the size of the base. I even think that it has ONLY to do with base facilities and not units within/nearby but then again I'm not sure.

	09-10-2001 23:25									#19
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Probes can't destroy either an SP or a free facility given as a result of that SP (just like you can't sell an SP nor a free facility as a result of one)

G.

	10-10-2001 02:29									#20
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Something to be wary of is Interlocks are caused by any factions tech-steal action. Marr had assimilated Rozes empire, when I dropped by to steal his tech all his bases already had interlocks, apparetely Roze had already probe-raped him.

This can be used to give free interlocks for your submissives.