09-10-2001 07:46									#1
	NEW AI Cheat in Civ2!!! (Is that really possible?) Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I´ve been playing Civ2, and reading Civ2 material, for years (almost since it was shipped).

Today, playing with one of my already finished games (French, Emperor), in the year of 2157 A.D. , I observed a *new* AI cheat... One that I never saw, or read about, before...

It wasn´t on purpose... I just decided to retaliate an attack from Neapolis (the last enemy city on the map, Romans, w/peace treaty - those atrocious traitors! ) and to use my spies to sabotage their 16 size city and sniff around a little. And poison their water to reduce the snake attackers to size 1.

Then I saw the following very "fair" thing...

Just to say...
Dificulty Level: Emperor
Civilization II v.2.42 Multiplayer Gold Edition
Roman Government Type: Republic.

Neapolis is empty (no units inside.)

Year 2157 A.D.
treasury was 1666 -> now is 1667 gold.
production: 9 shields/turn.
engineers built: -1 population; -zero gold(!!); cost 28 shields.
(first unit built; for the Human Player, the normal cost is 40 shields!!)

Year 2158 A.D.
treasury was 1667 -> now is 1658 gold (difference: -9 gold = 1 Alpine Troops)
production: 8 shields/turn.
Alpine Troops: 9 gold; 35 shields
(second unit built; for the Human Player, the normal is 50 shields!!!)

Funny things:
Cost to "build" Alpine Troops from scratch (human player): 450 gold.
Cost for AI: 9 gold!!!!

After these were built, the AI resumed "normal" unit construction (cheaper than humans, of course).

Free units for empty cities under siege! Veeeery nice!

Oh, well... Besides that, I do love this game!!

	09-10-2001 11:10									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

We know that the AI is allowed to cheat,
so it's perhaps not so strange. But I have to
admit I haven't seen that kind of behavior you
described before. Hmm...

	09-10-2001 16:56									#3
	Got spare money?

I've never seen that in a game before. I just hope that the computer players in Civ 3 are hard to beat without the need to let them cheat.

	09-10-2001 20:37									#4
	Got spare money?

thew ai could have made money over the end of their turn. the y would have at least some of their taxes devoted to earning money. this isn't neccesarily a cheat, it might just be commerce.

	09-10-2001 22:06									#5
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

As far as I can see, they really made money (1 gold piece) from taxes, from 2156 to 2157. No domestic trade (last Roman city) and no trade with me (nobody else to trade with). Sooo...
I found a tiny mistake in my figures... Here goes the correct scenario:

Year 2156: 1666 gold
Year 2157: 1667 gold (= 1666 gold + 1 gold from taxes)
Year 2158: 1658 gold (= 1667 gold + 1 gold from taxes - 10 for Alpine Troops)

So, after all, the Alpine Troops cost was 10 gold. Just 45 times less than normal...

It´s very sad to discover things like this. Hope Civ3 will improve AI at least to reduce AI cheating a little...

Last edited by Craftsman on 09-10-2001 at 22:11

	10-10-2001 06:57									#6
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Being a prolific poisoner and saboteur of enemy cities, I have seen this fairly often. However, it's never been the last enemy city. I always assumed the gold came from the AI either selling improvements or raising taxes. The shields were more puzzling, as they could only come from units being disbanded. It seems you have hit upon a more accurate explanation - blatant cheat - for this...

	10-10-2001 22:27									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

It is clearly an advantageous situation (read: cheat) for the AI. However, I would note that, at least at Deity, it appears the AI does not pay the penalties we do to buy units. That is, his gold converts to shields on a one-for-one basis. The same is NOT true for buildings. I don't have a recent save to prove this, but have observed it way more than enough to be sure. In the case you describe, the AI has gone better than that, using 18 production units (10 gold, 8 prod) to build a 45 production military piece (EMP AI price for Alpine). Not sure what's up with that.

	11-10-2001 07:33									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

IMHO, the AI only used its gold to buy the Alpine, just as we use to do when we rush buy something.
Even if our production is 80 shields/turn, if our shield box is empty (which is the case for Neapolis), we have to buy each shield necessary to complete the construction, if we want the unit/improvement by the next turn. This way, all excess shields (city´s current production) are wasted (not used in next production).

So, the Romans bought 35 shields for 10 gold pieces, to build the Alpine Troops. Or 3.5 shields/gold.

Just waiting Civ3´s "Golden Age" feature!