09-10-2001 08:54									#1
	Armored Probe Teams Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Its the armor.

Earlier I had noted that probe combat seemed to be dramatically different when an singularity armored hovertank was involved. Each attack could wipe out a defending fission probe team but take only up to 10 out of the armored probe team's 40 hit points. I had no idea why this combat seemed different from convention probe combat in which reactor level seemed irrelevant.

In my most recent game, I have been noting the difference. It appears that the difference in reactor is recognized if the probe team is armored. In other words, a fusion probe team without armor is still worth only 10 hit points in combat. However, put armor on that probe team, and you get 20 hit points.

Conclusion:

Armor your fusion and higher reactor probe teams.

	09-10-2001 22:57									#2
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I have witnessed people using armored probe teams as, well, defense units. Is it possible, or did I misinterpret something?

	09-10-2001 23:25									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

hmmmm, I could swear that my unarmored fusion probe teams have 20 hits. Does that mean that they are treated the same way as a native life attack, ignoring the reactor? I think not, since my unarmored fusion probe defenders seem to easily battle off two enemy probes (helps that their elite, of course).

Still, I think you should verify it in the scen editor. I do recall you also saying something about being able to make multiple attacks with that armored singularity probe hovertank. Set up two bases with 4 defenders. Attack one with a SPH and one with an armored SPH.

Then try it with fusion defenders.

	10-10-2001 00:00									#4
	Remove this text

kassiopea

You got it right. You can armour a probe team and it will defend against conventional attack using "normal" weapon v armour rules. However, they are still probe teams and will die automatically in stacks. So if you put 10 armoured probe teams in a stack, they would all die with the death of the first one. The best use seems to be as an unbribable, support-free sentry on the frontiers although some people will use them as base defenders.

	10-10-2001 01:07									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Ned,

Are you saying that the higher reactor (unarmored) probes are destroyed when just 10 of their 20, 30 or 40 points are lost? To put it another way, are you saying that an unarmored fusion probe starts with 20 points but is dead at 10 instead of zero?

(Also, I'm a little confused at your mention of 40 hit points in the context of fission in your "Earlier..." paragraph; I'm not sure exactly what is attacking what either)

Like Fitz, I had the impression that my unarmored fusion and up probes were more effective than the AI's fission ones; it seemed to be a bit unfair to use them. When it comes to defending with an unarmored probe against a real combat unit, I don't think I really look at the numbers, I just write off the poor thing.

OTOH, I have used armored probes quite a bit, including playing games where I could not build virtually nothingt but probes and I never noticed anything odd like that and I built and lost quite a few probes built with as much armor and as big a reactor as I could afford. I still could have a blind spot because I kind of expect them to lose - even when they are tough, the AI usually attacks with more than 1 unit and as you know, it doesn't make sense to stack the probes so they tend to eat dirt anyway.

As I recall, an unarmored probe takes a 50% non-com penalty while an armored one doesn't - I presume you would have taken that into account, so you must be talking about something else.

	10-10-2001 06:05									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Guys, Since I don't stop combat, I am just giving you my impressions. I will conduct a test with the SE in a few minutes.

However, last night I was (and still am for that matter) in a battle with MARR. I am Domai. He consistently was able to defeat my elite unarmored fusion probes in a base with only conventional fission probes. However, these same probes only caused about 7 hit points in damage to my armored fusion probe, leaving 13. This tells me something.

As I said, the first time I noticed this when I was attacking using an singularity armored hovertank probe. That sucker could clear a base of up to three enemy probes and still have movement points left to execute a probe action. I just had never seen that before.

Ned

	10-10-2001 11:50									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well, the SE showed its definitely the reactor. However, I also found out some very peculiar - something that I cannot explain. What I found was that all probe combat by the Drones against the Peacekeepers was at power 3.00 to 2.00. When I switched sides to the Peacekeepers, the reverse attacks on the Drones was at odds 2.00 to 2.00.

I checked the probe rating for each: 0. Each of the probes started as Disciplined.

Go figure.

Ned