09-10-2001 22:43									#1
	PBEM is at least in right? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

right?

	09-10-2001 22:44									#2
	Re: PBEM is at least in right? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by smellymummy PBEM is at least in right? right?

You're joking?

Right?

	09-10-2001 22:47									#3
	Remove this text

should I be?

	09-10-2001 22:48									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Sorry but that is a funny f*ckin name......

As far as the answer...beats me!

	09-10-2001 22:58									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Well I am sure that PBEM would not require the same fancy code that other multiplayer stuff does, it would be a matter of just saving it ready for the next person.

How hard can that be?

	09-10-2001 23:11									#6
	Support Apolyton

Not hard at all assuming both players know how to manage files and e-mails.

However, if the game code doesn't provide basic support for it we won't really be able to play by e-mail now will we? I'm hoping firaxis will include this MP feature at the very least; but like a lot of the stuff, looks like it remains unknown

	09-10-2001 23:37									#7
	Remove this text

But, who on earth would play Civ as PBEM??! That would be kinda sloooooooooooow...

	09-10-2001 23:42									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Some people have this thing called "P-A-T-I-E-N-C-E" Wexu

	09-10-2001 23:49									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Firaxis wrote SMAC
SMAC has PBEM
Therefore Civ III has PBEM??

	10-10-2001 00:16									#10
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by PN Firaxis wrote SMAC SMAC has PBEM Therefore Civ III has PBEM??

I would sure hope so.

Not having it in would be a step backwards. If it was patched into SMAC, it couldn't be that hard to put in.

	10-10-2001 00:29									#11
	Get a bigger avatar today!

PBEM and Hotseat are my two favorite MP methods. Playing civ online is just too time consuming, I like being able to make moves at my leisure when I have the time.

But it was these two that baffled Activision's team in CTP2. It was the necessity of getting both sides to diplomatic talks to respond before they could move on from the bargaining process that kept crashing the whole system.

I fear the lack of an MP announcement from Firaxis means they haven't found a solution to the problem either. I'd really like to know before I buy the game.

David

	10-10-2001 00:41									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Pardon my stupidity, but what's PBEM? I know what Hotseat is.

	10-10-2001 00:50									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

PBEM = Play By E-Mail

Dunno how exactly you play it though, never played MP...

	10-10-2001 01:04									#14
	Crash course in PBEM using Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri as an example Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

At the start the first player sets up the game and specifies every player's email address.
First player takes their turn and gets prompted for a password.
At the end of their turn, the game gets automatically saved and the first person is told the email address to send it.
Second player gets the turn and specifies a password...etc.
After everybody has their frst turn it's impossible to cheat because when you take your turn, the saved game that you must send to the next player is protected by their password.

Disadvantage is that you can wait days for your turn to arrive. Best way to mitigate it is to get yourself involved in loads of different games so that you take a few turns per day in different games. Games can take literally years to complete!
Advantage is that you don't sit on-line waiting for everybody else to take their turn. And because the PBEM players can be literally all over the world (which is difficult with on-line multiplayer because of time zones), it's culturally more rewarding as you play against a wider variety of nationalities.

PBEM does need a lot of careful planning. For example, you need to devise an order of play so that the players are all west of each other to maximise turn rate. A good play order might be UK, US East Coast, US West Coast, New Zealand, Australia, Italy, Germany, France for example. Most games use a moderator who knows all the passwords and receives copies of all the turns so that 'bottlenecks' can be avioded during players' holidays for example.

	10-10-2001 01:31									#15
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

There are ways of getting around the lack of PBEM support. IIRC, it was technically feasable to play Master of Magic PBEM, or at least hotseat... with a third party hack program.

	10-10-2001 01:58									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: At the start the first player sets up the game and specifies every player's email address. First player takes their turn and gets prompted for a password.

I've never played PBEM, but always wondered what the cheat protection method was.

What is to stop someone copying the game file they get in the mail, and replaying it until they get the outcome they want from battles before saving a prefered version that they then send on to the next player?

	10-10-2001 02:07									#17
	Remove this text

no. no forms of multiplayer. ever. ha ha ha.

	10-10-2001 02:21									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

UberKrux/Jingo, do you happen to know why the "last post" is by UberKrux yet your current handle is Jingo?

	10-10-2001 04:31									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

ming was changing my name for me at the time.

	10-10-2001 04:37									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Damn, not another confusing name change

I have always found PBEM the most feasible form of multiplayer for civ, mainly because I have never had any luck with getting a connection sorted out with other people, and then there is organising mutually compatible times to continue playing the game, and yuck, it can be damn awkward. PBEMs are a bit more casual, although it can take an eternity to play a game. And it is probably the most low-tech of the multiplayer modes, so it should be included without too much of a fuss...

	10-10-2001 05:14									#21
	Got spare money?

I remember starting a pbem game in smac. It only lasted for about a month and a half because it was way too tedious pressing "end of turn" and then sending the file along to someone else for about 5 rounds until you built something. Everyone got bored and when a guy had to leave the game for a month we all decided to give it away.

To put it bluntly, civ pbem is just plain boring. There are just too many turns in a civ game for pbem to be fun.

I've been playing Diplomacy for four years too so I'm no newcomer to pbem

	10-10-2001 07:44									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Wexu But, who on earth would play Civ as PBEM??! That would be kinda sloooooooooooow...

You are kidding right? Go visit the Multiplayer SMAC forums here at Apolyton and see for yourself. I don't mean any offense, but there is quite a lot of us that have been playing pbem SMAC for a while.

And pbem may be boring for you, but there about a 1000 others who don't agree with that. Especially if you enrich the game with real diplomacy (which we do) and you are involved in several pbem game at once. Heck, chess has been played like this for centuries by way of correspondence, and now even the internet.

And to answer the top post: I certainly hope that Firaxis hasn't lost its mind and is not including pbem. The CIV community, and Apolyton, would lose a lot of fans if it wasn't inlcuded. But I know that they will, its just a matter of when.

	10-10-2001 10:30									#23
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch quote: At the start the first player sets up the game and specifies every player's email address. First player takes their turn and gets prompted for a password. I've never played PBEM, but always wondered what the cheat protection method was. What is to stop someone copying the game file they get in the mail, and replaying it until they get the outcome they want from battles before saving a prefered version that they then send on to the next player?

In SMAC there is password protection for each player. Also if you load the turn more than once then when the others do their turn it tells them how many times you've reloaded it. Of course it doesn't stop someone using a second computer to scout out but that would require way too much effort for me. It works well and a lot better than I thought it would before I started. Well worth a try.

	10-10-2001 18:49									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Just a question, how would you deal with the diplomacy/trade screen used in civ3 with PBEM?

I just can't see it

	10-10-2001 18:58									#25
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

In SMAC, every diplomatic transition takes several turns, or at least two for the proposing player. First, a proposition is made by player 1; then the proposee (player 2) makes a counter offer/trade; if player 1 agrees, he accepts the proposal and the agreement follows through immediately; otherwise, the proposal is either not accepted, or modified- in which case the offer exchange goes into another round.

And there is always out-of-game diplomacy through chat and/or email.

	10-10-2001 19:32									#26
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba In SMAC, every diplomatic transition takes several turns, or at least two for the proposing player. First, a proposition is made by player 1; then the proposee (player 2) makes a counter offer/trade; if player 1 agrees, he accepts the proposal and the agreement follows through immediately; otherwise, the proposal is either not accepted, or modified- in which case the offer exchange goes into another round. And there is always out-of-game diplomacy through chat and/or email.

Yeah, you can always email someone, agree on whatever and then put it into the dip screen as accepted and then send it on and when they play the turn all they have to do is accept and then set it to give it what you want. Its not normally a problem.

	10-10-2001 19:38									#27
	Suffering from ads?

umm you guys should visit the SMAC and CTP multiplaying forums and read some of the reads.

Pbem is way better than continuous MP or SP.