10-10-2001 00:38									#1
	Do you have a preferred start location?? Remove this text

I know this will depend on faction, map size and momentum/builder preferences to some degree but I am just curious as to whether people prefer to be at the edge of the map or more toward the center. . . I am torn


AT A POLE


Defense is easier from the simple fact that there is a "safe area" at your back. It can be great for energy parks. Home defense is simplified since there are fewer directions from which attacks can come and you can often build longer since it seems that you may be left alone for longer. BUT you could be far far away from the factions that are growing and tech trading . . .



IN THE MIDDLE OF IT ALL

Obviously defense is tougher but trade and diplomacy is quicker and probing is easier just because you are closer to everyone. Also you can be more influential if you are not a far-away power. You can be a diplomatic power broker since your forces are at hand.



There are times I abhor my pole start since it takes forever to meet anyone and the darn AI I want to probe is oh so far away. Other times I curse my central continent when I am being sniped at from three directions.

How about you folks? Do you like to find yourself dead centre ot are you happier when you see that map edge?? Does it make a difference to you whether it is MP or SP ??

	10-10-2001 01:12									#2
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For me, I usually like to start in the center. Sure the AI will snipe at me, but almost all of the time the AI isn't to hard to convince to go commit suicide someplace else (or I just wipe them out).

	10-10-2001 01:43									#3
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The best starting position is near or in the Monsoon Jungle, so that means a near-equatorial first base. I hate it when I discover the MJ is already occupied by an alien.

Having the HQ near the equator also minimizes drone activity at the most remote bases (although you could relocate HQ to a central position at any time).

I can't decide whether I like starting on a big land mass or on an island small enough to qualify for a free Unity Foil. It's nice to seed two land masses, and the foil can start popping seapods right away.

	10-10-2001 01:52									#4
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The jungle can be a pain if you are the University, but otherwise it's great, especially for Yang or Lal. If it were a real-life situation I'd want to be at the poles for defensive reasons, but against the AI, its far better to be in the center for early tech-trades, conquest, what-have-you.

My personal favorite starting location is right between the MJ and the Uranium Flats.

-S-

	10-10-2001 01:59									#5
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My greatest annoyance is when my HQ is right on the edge of the map, neatly splitting my empire into two halves on the mini-map. This annoys me.

being somewhat of an isolationist I prefer a pole start.

I run away screaming (restart) should I start in a rainy spot, it goes against my policy "everything must be terraformed". (I cant remember the last time I saw the jungle, cant turn up often on arid maps )

	10-10-2001 02:12									#6
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I HATE HATE HATE HATE the Monsoon Jungle.

It is RIDICULOUSLY unbalancing. Not only does it give +1 nutrient per square, all Jungle squares are automatically Rainy. That's more like +2 nutrients per square, which is a HORRIFIC bonus. The moment the food restrictions come off, it's just about game over.

And why does Yang ALWAYS land there?! In every one of my last five games (except when I played Yang), he landed in the Jungle. And when I played Yang, Lal landed there, on the continent right next door to mine.

I'm playing a game on Transcend right now as Morgan, and thanks to starting in the jungle, Yang's got triple my height on the power bar despite me throwing everything I can at him. I'm holding onto a slim tech edge with Doctrine Air, and desperately trying to reach Fusion and Orbital before he does. At least Yang didn't get Hunter-Seeker, but neither did I. Lal has it, and fortunately for me is treatied with Yang and sunspot activity just began (meaning Yang won't conquer Lal.)

Can the Jungle be removed from the game by removing the appropriate line from the Landmarks section of alpha.txt? I haven't tried, but now think I need to...

	10-10-2001 02:14									#7
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quote: [SIZE=1] My personal favorite starting location is right between the MJ and the Uranium Flats. -S-

Well sure although I like the jungle and the +1 Planet one with the crater, flats and pholus ridge right nearby

AS I am beginning to consider this I am thinking that in a SP game , you may as well be dead center and enjoy some action ( since you will win anyway). But for MP, I'm still up in the air. . .

	10-10-2001 02:18									#8
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quote: Can the Jungle be removed from the game by removing the appropriate line from the Landmarks section of alpha.txt? I haven't tried, but now think I need to...

I dont think that would work.... One thing I do is generate random maps in the scenerio edit, do some touchup work (remove the jungle, connect/disconnect continents to taste, pre-seed with forests, if SMAC make the ocean fresh etc etc.) then save it and start a new game on it. Then you get a map exactly how you like it, and the random map generator did all the monkey work.

	10-10-2001 02:22									#9
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I guess it's always nice to land next to the Manifold Nexus, almost all faction gets the ability to start hunting mindworms for more than just cash and morale boost.

for OCC I would say that in the middle of the ruins (I actually don't think you can land in there).

,,

	10-10-2001 03:26									#10
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I like the poles so that my back is covered, or alone on a decent size round or square shaped continent where I can build my great wall defense.

	10-10-2001 04:20									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Blake My greatest annoyance is when my HQ is right on the edge of the map, neatly splitting my empire into two halves on the mini-map. This annoys me.

You can recenter the minimap I believe. I know you can do it with the world map zoomed out all the way.

	10-10-2001 09:15									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Fitz You can recenter the minimap I believe. I know you can do it with the world map zoomed out all the way.

I have learned something new today. I did not know this. I shall try it right now I think.

	10-10-2001 13:03									#13
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The Unity Wreckage is a pretty good place to start.
I like the Ruins, MJ and Uranium Fields too.

	10-10-2001 13:17									#14
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The Jungle is great. It is a very powerful landmark, especially at the 'end of the opening' game.

	10-10-2001 17:27									#15
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I recently started a game where I used a "Map of Planet" for the first time. "Huge Map of Planet," specifically. I've always used random maps up until this point. I'm Zak, and found myself on the rim of the Freshwater Sea. I've built a ring of bases around it, and got a foil energy park going. Looks like a decent situation to be in. I'm also in the process of raising land bridges along the extreme SE & SW portions of the continent, connecting it to the south pole at those points and isolating that huge ocean, making it all mine; nobody's built bases in there yet.

Now, the power charts tell me that Yang is top dog, and the pop-up notices tell me that he's mopping the floor with Deidre. Let me guess - he's in the Monsoon Jungle? Do the factions start in roughly the same places every time you start a game using a "Map of Planet?"

	10-10-2001 19:02									#16
	i like to be left alone Enter the AD-FREE zone

heh... i prefer a nice big continent near the north pole where i can build in peace. then once i get air power, i go wipe out the moron declaring vendetta on me for using a democratic government. i guess my philosophy is "leave me alone".

	10-10-2001 19:28									#17
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quote: Now, the power charts tell me that Yang is top dog, and the pop-up notices tell me that he's mopping the floor with Deidre. Let me guess - he's in the Monsoon Jungle? Do the factions start in roughly the same places every time you start a game using a "Map of Planet?"

Nah, Yang in the Monsoon Jungle is just a general rule of the game hardcoded into the executable somewhere. At least I could swear it is. (At least he packs the bases nicely together to hit with Fusion Planet Busters....)

I think removing the line for the jungle from alpha.txt does in fact prevent the random map generator from generating a jungle. I'll try it tonight. I don't want to just edit away the jungle after generating a random map, since I love exploring the unknown maps.

	10-10-2001 20:35									#18
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In reference to the Monsoon Jungle:

Being the democracy junkie that I am, in my last game I actually managed to share the Jungle equally between all the factions

I'd just forced Domai into submission and thus taken the Jungle from him, so I thought, 'hey, here's an idea - why not make it sorta neutral ground, 1 base per faction, everyone can meet n greet?' (cos there's nothing worse than factions with no contact, right?) so I starved/podded bases out until there were only 7 left, then shared them out equally amongst the factions!

It actually worked remarkably well - instead of all getting aggressive over the Jungle, I was able to step in and act as peacekeeper (I controlled all the territory roundabout) and none of them seemed to want to lose their toehold so they all kept reasonably quiet!

	10-10-2001 23:58									#19
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quote: Originally posted by SMAC Fanatic . . . I was able to step in and act as peacekeeper (I controlled all the territory roundabout) and none of them seemed to want to lose their toehold so they all kept reasonably quiet!

SMAC Fanatic, it seems like you would be a natural for this victory condition in a game Vel was talking about :

quote: Originally posted by Vel in the "A Clockwork Lemon" thread . . . Peace Keepers: Your goal is to ensure that all factions remain in the game until the very end. You win by default if no one has transcended by the normal game's end, and all factions are still around.

	12-10-2001 03:58									#20
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In the sea. The pirates just rock.

	12-10-2001 14:18									#21
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I played my first game the other day as the Pirates.
Having played Civ for so long before getting SMAX, I've never quite got to grips with sea bases, and decided it was high time I did.
It was an interesting game. I had never considered building foil probes or foil crawlers before, and it was unusual to be voting AGAINST launcing the solar shade and trying to melt the ice caps instead.
Unfortunately the PC crashed before I finished the game (one of these times I'll remember to save it regularly!), but I'll certianly be trying it again.

	12-10-2001 20:32									#22
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Hmmm, I've not noticed the tendency for Yang to start with MJ. Somebody must've hardcoded my game so he always starts with Garland Crater.

In my experience, MJ is most often in the hands of Aki or adjacent to the Pirates (SMAX) or the PK (SMAC). Lal with the MJ becomes very difficult to deal with since his talents let him benefit most from the +1 nutrients. He still has no idea how to terraform it well: current game it is 2225 and I am removing bases from his control and there are no forests anywhere, and still loaods of fungus on nice juicy rolling, rainy river squares. But that growth and its boost gave him the ME, CN, VW, and CDF all within a brief span while I build HGP/ WP/ PTS/ MCC, chased down the tech and tried to locate him. Luckily I stole PSA just as he finished researching it and beat him to the Hunter-Seeker. Turned the tide . . .

Most of the landmarks make great starts. I've never started right at the Wreckage but have seen AI's who have. How weird is that when you find a chopper in a base around 2120?! The Crater and Borehole Cluster are both very good ones to have nearby. Geothmal Shallows is among my faves, as is having the Ruins nearby.

	12-10-2001 20:43									#23
	i've been starting near mount planet a LOT Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

hm, don't know why. the past couple times it was with aki, but in my new morgan game i started there too.

the landmarks and weird terrain always screw me up. i'm so used to terraforming normal land that i get confused when i get something different. i know the landmarks often give you a nice advantage, but i don't know how to work it. like, should i just build lots of solar collectors on mount planet? i dunno.

how about some tips as to what to do with the various types of terrain when you encounter it??

	12-10-2001 20:46									#24
	er... i meant Put an end to popups!

the SPECIAL terrain, like the crater, monsoon jungle, mount planet. etc.

	12-10-2001 21:54									#25
	Re: i've been starting near mount planet a LOT Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Bella Hella but i don't know how to work it. like, should i just build lots of solar collectors on mount planet? i dunno. how about some tips as to what to do with the various types of terrain when you encounter it??

I usually build lots of mines on Mt. Planet for the mineral bonus. If you start near it, then the energy solution is a good one (esp if you can pile some crawlers from your ME base there).

Ridge - lots of collectors.

Freshwater Sea/ Geothermal: terraform as you would any sea square and enjoy the bonuses.

Crater: mines or forests (plant some, let it grow, crawler back the minerals).

Fossil Ridge is a tease since it is destroyed when you terraform it. Pirates' deep-water ability comes very late in the game.

	14-10-2001 10:15									#26
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Yang or Miriam get the jungle when I play. Or atleast most of the time, I think its because Yang and especially Miriam are willing to travel very far to get to the jungle, and if anyone else is there when they arrive, they can almost always kick them out.

I've seen The Hive like 15 spaces away from Yang's second base(which was on the edge of the jungle). so he can really beeline for it sometimes.