10-10-2001 05:34									#1
	Unit Upkeep Cost Questions Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

We know by now that units require gold for upkeep as opposed to shields, however do all units require equal upkeep costs?

An aircraft carrier does not have the same upkeep cost as a rifleman, do they both only cost 1 gold upkeep?

I think that by scaling the upkeep cost, modern armies are limited in size (a fact also played out in reality) because of their increased cost. As such, different military gaming styles can be used, whether its mass-produced but cheaper units or a smaller but high tech military with advanced units. Both styles would probably cost the same if a sliding scale unit upkeep is used, but would play in vastly different ways. Such a system would have parallels in the real world, as in the Chinese military which is enormous by manpower numbers but lacking technologically (though currently upgrading) versus the US military which is smaller, but has the edge in technology and lethality per soldier.

Without having a modern screenshot or having much modern unit info available, this concept is still debatable as we don't know the answer yet.

	10-10-2001 05:44									#2
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I know there's at least one screen out there that shows the player having something like 76 units, and the upkeep cost is 76 gold. I get the feeling it's going to be a 1:1 relationship.

Off to look for the link.....

Ah ha! It's 71 units, 71 gold. Hard to believe that there's not some variety of units that would justify higher upkeep, but it's still debatable as you say.

Link:
http://www.civ3.com/images/screensh...ary_advisor.jpg

	10-10-2001 06:07									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Stuie I know there's at least one screen out there that shows the player having something like 76 units, and the upkeep cost is 76 gold. I get the feeling it's going to be a 1:1 relationship. Ah ha! It's 71 units, 71 gold. Hard to believe that there's not some variety of units that would justify higher upkeep, but it's still debatable as you say.

Those are still pre-industrial units. Hopefully modern units are an exception.

	10-10-2001 06:10									#4
	Re: Unit Upkeep Cost Questions Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV We know by now that units require gold for upkeep as opposed to shields, however do all units require equal upkeep costs? An aircraft carrier does not have the same upkeep cost as a rifleman, do they both only cost 1 gold upkeep? I think that by scaling the upkeep cost, modern armies are limited in size (a fact also played out in reality) because of their increased cost. As such, different military gaming styles can be used, whether its mass-produced but cheaper units or a smaller but high tech military with advanced units. Both styles would probably cost the same if a sliding scale unit upkeep is used, but would play in vastly different ways. Such a system would have parallels in the real world, as in the Chinese military which is enormous by manpower numbers but lacking technologically (though currently upgrading) versus the US military which is smaller, but has the edge in technology and lethality per soldier. Without having a modern screenshot or having much modern unit info available, this concept is still debatable as we don't know the answer yet.

US miltary is smaller compare to the Chinese in manpower, but in fact, US military is very big, considering the fact that they have to keep their ships all over the globe.

	10-10-2001 06:13									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Stuie I know there's at least one screen out there that shows the player having something like 76 units, and the upkeep cost is 76 gold. I get the feeling it's going to be a 1:1 relationship. Off to look for the link..... Ah ha! It's 71 units, 71 gold. Hard to believe that there's not some variety of units that would justify higher upkeep, but it's still debatable as you say. Link: http://www.civ3.com/images/screensh...ary_advisor.jpg

I saw that screenshot too. If it's true that all units cost 1 gold upkeep, this game would be completely ruined. How in the world can you imagine a nuclear powered carrier to cost as much to maintain than an ancient time swordsman unit?
That means, by the modern time, as your gold incomes keep increasing, even a tiny Civ is capable of supporting 10+ fully equpped carrier fleet.

	10-10-2001 06:17									#6
	Re: Re: Unit Upkeep Cost Questions Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Dida US miltary is smaller compare to the Chinese in manpower, but in fact, US military is very big, considering the fact that they have to keep their ships all over the globe.

That's my point the US military actually costs more then the Chinese military, yet the Chinese military is bigger. Will the unit upkeep costs reflect that idea? I think it should.

	10-10-2001 06:22									#7
	Get a bigger avatar today!

dont worry, all the units in screenshos are ancient

	10-10-2001 06:23									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

from what i've heard, for every hour the B-2 stealth bomber flies it requires 100 hours of upkeep to keep it stealthy
so hopefully stealth bombers will require more upkeep than a normal bomber

	10-10-2001 07:32									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

It definitely shouldn't be as simple as 1:1. Obviously, not all units should require the same amount of support. Maybe it might be different in the modern age.

	10-10-2001 10:15									#10
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Just keep in mind that Firaxis have yet to release modern screen-shots. Soon, though, soon.

	10-10-2001 10:29									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

i may be wrong but i thought somewhere along the line firaxis stated that there would be different upkeep costs. does anybody else remember hearing this? i'm most likely wrong but there is a slight chance i'm right that i heard this.

i sure hope there is different upkeep costs.

	10-10-2001 12:53									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

In fact, differnt unit upkeep can actually destroy gameplay, at least in CTP.
In CTP upkeep cost was dependent of units production cost.
But human players often haven't disbanded their old units because
there were cheap to support compared to modern ones, so at lest they
could be used as cannon fodder.

I mean in CTP2 upkeep for phalanx was 1 point, for pikemean 4 points,
machine gunner was 12 poins, and tank a 20 point.
So it dosn't pay off to disband yours oblosete units.
Especally since upkeep is in global scale (like in CTP).

Maybe there shoudl be a smaller difference like:
1 point - melee & early ranged infanry
2 points - melee cavalry & catapults, firearm infantry
3 points - ranged firearm cavalry and cannons & artillery
4 poins - tanks, SAMs, interceptors etc...