11-10-2001 01:37									#31
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orange,
My mistake, it will be fixed.

	11-10-2001 02:12									#32
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Arabs 20
Assyrians 20
Hittites 20
Khmers 20
Mongols 20
Polacks\Poles\Polish 20
Turks 20
Vikings 20

	11-10-2001 02:52									#33
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Eskimo 20
Mayan 20
Mongol 20
Sioux 20
Celts 20
Phoenicans 20
Spain 10
Inca 10
Polynesians 10
Mali 10

Total 160

	11-10-2001 03:42									#34
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Ranking updated, up to Mars. 179 valid votes casted, 27938 points (= 97.5% of total possible). The Excel sheet is of course also updated. Due to the Polish invasion discussion a large part of the old thread was rather chaotic, I hope I didn't overlook anything.

Here's another list of (20) people whose votes are invalid under the new rules:

lukaski (only 1 civ, 20 points)
OneFootInTheGrave (only 5 civs)
groza1 (only 3 civs, 60 points)
Goomich (only 1 civ, 20 points)
hewhocaves (only 3 civs, 60 points)
Dessloch (only 3 civs, 50 points)
Tomasz Wysocki (1 civ, 20 points)
jigit (only 2 civs, 35 points)
Kamasz (only 1 civ, 20 points)
Cantonek (only 1 civ, 20 points)
lhaydi (only 1 civ, 20 points)
pmajewski (only 1 civ, 20 points)
Rafal (only 1 civ, 20 points)
Darek87 (only 1 civ, 20 points)
Ctty (only 45 points)
vonholl (only 2 civs, 40 points)
valdi77 (only 1 civ, 20 points)
Gimitar (only 1 civ, 20 points)
Karol (only 1 civ, 20 points)
bogi (only 1 civ, 20 points)

Note that some people from the previous list (krzysiek, borg, Staszek) have already posted an update to their votes in this or the previous thread, their updated votes are valid of course.

Upon request, here's a list of people who still have points left (in alphabetical order):

boca: 60
Carlos113: 65
Colon: 7
CyberShy: 40
cyril25376: 43
Fiera: 10
gannon: 40
GP: 4
Hasdrubal: 20
hetairoi22: 2
laurentius: 40
Lawrence of Arabia: 20
Lenius: 10
Mankind: 20
Mercani: 30
MishGolden: 50
monkspider: 20
Nikolai: 20
Optimizer: 10
Ribannah: 40
Rogan Josh: 60
Solmyr: 20
star mouse: 5
Tigen: 60
Tis I: 6
Va-Toran: 10
War4ever: 10

Internationalist,
You said you wanted to retract your vote altogether if the rules weren't changed. Since I changed the rules I'm assuming you're no longer retracting your vote so I still counted it. Let me know if you want it retracted after all though...

Boney,
I'm assuming 'Mon' means Mongols and Geordie means Georgians (from the Caucasus). Let me know if I'm wrong though...

Last edited by Locutus on 11-10-2001 at 13:10

	11-10-2001 05:01									#35
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Well, I gotta say that the top 16 really do look like the consensus top 16 if other games are any indication. One difference *I'd* like, it's no big deal, I'm not against anyone or anything, just giving my opinion that I wish the HRE was up there. The one that I'd replace would be the Polish. Not that I think they're a bad choice, I just like the HRE better.

Now, no flaming me for saying I'd like another civ in there OK!

	11-10-2001 06:04									#36
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Keep up the good work Locutus. I know it must be very tedious and I think most of us hold your poll in the highest regard.



EDIT: Good work on using the comma to separate your decimals! Please don't change it; we need to teach those from English-speaking countries that this is the correct way to write them

	11-10-2001 06:25									#37
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I've used all 160 points. Why do I still have 20 left?

	11-10-2001 06:33									#38
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Hi Locutus, it's cool to see the list properly running again... i just thought of something, in the list, in addition to saying WHO you updated the last, can you say WHEN too? Like for example, "Last Update: xyz, Oct 9 14:00 GMT' or something like that.

Anyway, i just noticed how the South East Asian votes are split up between the Khmers, Siamese, and Vietnamese. Thus all 3 are kept out of the top 16.

The Top 16 looks fine to me except the Byzantines... I would take them out and put in the Siamese or Khmers.

	11-10-2001 10:41									#39
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quote: Originally posted by ranskaldan Hi Locutus, it's cool to see the list properly running again... i just thought of something, in the list, in addition to saying WHO you updated the last, can you say WHEN too? Like for example, "Last Update: xyz, Oct 9 14:00 GMT' or something like that.

Read the last edited line.

	11-10-2001 12:35									#40
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quote: Upon request, here's a list of people who still have points left (in alphabetical order): boca: 60 Carlos113: 65 Colon: 7 CyberShy: 40 cyril25376: 43 Fiera: 10 gannon: 40 GP: 4 Hasdrubal: 20 hetairoi: 2 laurentius: 40 Lawrence of Arabia: 20 Lenius: 10 Mercani: 30 MishGolden: 50 monkspider: 20 Nikolai: 20 Optimizer: 10 orange: 20 Ribannah: 20 Rogan Josh: 60 Solmyr: 20 star mouse: 5 Tigen: 60 Tis I: 6 Va-Toran: 10 War4ever: 10

and where's my *20* ?

i first voted

quote: Poles 20 Mongols 20 Celts 20 vikings 20 carthage 20 arabs 20 spanish 20 mayas 20

and i changed my mind
mayas -20

so i should have *20*

	11-10-2001 13:01									#41
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MacTBone,
Well, *personally* I think the HRE is identical to the German Empire (and later grew into the Austro-Hungarian Empire) and is thus already in the game, but I can understand how others might disagree (and if they're not German they do deserve a place in Civ3).

orange,
Hmm, odd. I don't know how you got in there - I must not have been paying attention - but I removed you now.

ranskaldan,
Like Gramphos said, see the 'last edited' line at the bottom. But then again, you're not the first not to think about this, I think I'll add some sort of time-stamp when I next update (only what time-zone?).

Mankind,
Like I said, the old thread got a little chaotic towards the end, I must have overlooked that -20 for Maya. I'll fix your vote during the next update (list with people with points left above was already fixed though).

Last edited by Locutus on 11-10-2001 at 13:14

	11-10-2001 13:02									#42
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(double post)

Last edited by Locutus on 11-10-2001 at 13:12

	11-10-2001 13:13									#43
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Here is my updated list:

• Poles 20
  
• Vikings 20
  
• Turks 20
  
• Tartars 20
  
• Mongols 20
  
• Huns 20
  

TOTAL of 6 civ's and 120 pts

...and my first true post on Apolyton.

I just wanted to say that I found this page ONLY tanks to LoD's page. I don't want to continue the discussion about the 'Polish invasion' as this topic had already been widely discussed and closed.
I have been playing Civ since the early beginning and I'm really happy to have found this forum. And now I say 'Hi' to everyone.

BTW, in Poland you also use commas not dots in percentages..

	11-10-2001 14:40									#44
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vonholl,
I wonder, do you plan on visiting Apolyton more often in the future or was the sole purpose of you registering here to be able to vote in this poll?

	11-10-2001 17:21									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus Internationalist, You said you wanted to retract your vote altogether if the rules weren't changed. Since I changed the rules I'm assuming you're no longer retracting your vote so I still counted it. Let me know if you want it retracted after all though...

No,since you did change the rules you're assuming right.
Good job with the new thread, too, though I guess it would be time consuming. Much easier to find posts once again.
Thanks and keep up the good work!
I think these series of threads proves to be the most interesting to apolytoners since Forums creation,propably surpassing even your wildest expectations. It's becomming a social phenomenon.

	11-10-2001 21:02									#46
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Poles 20
Spanish 20
Mongols 20
Turks 20
Austrians/Austro-Hungarians 10
Native Americans/American Indians 5
Inca 5

	11-10-2001 21:45									#47
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How about a few more votes for Celts and/or Scots?

	11-10-2001 23:07									#48
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Locutus,

I really don't know yet. If I find time, as I managed to do for a last few days, I intend to visit the site frequently. But, you see, playing Civ and talking about it is not my only past time activity..

quote: ...was the sole purpose of you registering here to be able to vote in this poll?

And the answer to your question is: no, it was not. Although it was a reason, and a big one. Because I really would like to play Civ as Poles among other nations. I'm just tired of creating a custom Civilization every time, and playing against the Tartars for example could be interesting.

	12-10-2001 00:38									#49
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Internationalist,
Good to hear that. As far as the importance/fun of this thread goes, I guess it is fairly interesting and its success by far surpassed all my expectations, but I personally wouldn't go as far as calling it the most interesting thing in the history of Apolyton. It still (rightly) stands pale in the shadow of The List and comparable projects in other (non-Civ3) forums...

vonholl,
Hmm, I see a very familiar pattern developing with you that many other Apolytoners might also recognize: first you're not sure how interesting it is and whether or not you'll come back, then you find yourself returning on a regular basis and before you know it you're completely addicted and can't have a day go by without visiting Apolyton

"Apolyton: You can join anytime you want, but you can never leave" MUHAHAHAHA!!!


Edit: BTW, I started a new thread with the promised 'Civ of the Week'-like feature that I promised last week, look here.

Last edited by Locutus on 12-10-2001 at 00:45

	12-10-2001 01:02									#50
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Locutus,
could you speak to Markos. He tend to listen more to you then he listens to me.

quote: Hmm, I see a very familiar pattern developing with you that many other Apolytoners might also recognize: first you're not sure how interesting it is and whether or not you'll come back, then you find yourself returning on a regular basis and before you know it you're completely addicted and can't have a day go by without visiting Apolyton

You got me there.

BTW - I updated the bars up to your last update.

	12-10-2001 02:20									#51
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nice thread, locutus
by the way, I myself joined apolyton for the sole reason of voting in this, well the other, thread.

	12-10-2001 03:15									#52
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Replace the Poles, Koreans, and Byzantines with the Polynesians, Mali, and Khmer and the top 16 would be great. Three great civs are so close, lets get them up there.

	12-10-2001 03:33									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Replace the Poles, Koreans, and Byzantines with the Polynesians, Mali, and Khmer and the top 16 would be great. Three great civs are so close, lets get them up there.

I agree Khmer and Mali would add diversity and (for Earth map) a wider range of starting positions (better than Poles Koreans and Byzantines anyway) but the Poles and Koreans are certainly worthy civs. The Byzantines would be, if it wasn't a Greek continuation of the Eastern Roman epmire. We have a Greek, we have a Roman...Byantines should be ditched for Mali

Polynesians - lets get Khmer and Mali in first...Polynesians...eh...not as worthy as the Poles.

	12-10-2001 03:41									#54
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I agree that the Polynesians have a questionable worth as a civilization, but I think that they are very important in terms of balancing the gameplay on an Earth based map. The East Indies and Australia are completely empty right now and I think the Khmer and Polynesians would help fill in that area. The Poles are slightly more worthy than the Polynesians, but the fact that they are located in an already extremely crowded area makes them a bad choice IMHO.

	12-10-2001 04:46									#55
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Arabs 20

Spanish 20

Mongol 20

Goths 20

Celts 18

Viking 15

Algonquiens 12 (they are the other cultural type of native Amerindians with Iroquois)

Carthage 11

	12-10-2001 07:24									#56
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My first post here at apolyton, although I have read it for quite a while.

Here are my votes:

Poles: 20
Vikings: 20
Dutch: 10
Swedes: 10
Byzantines: 20
Arabs: 20

	12-10-2001 07:59									#57
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I was woundering if I wouldn't put Khmers and Aborigens. Still not sure if I should...

What is called "Polynesians" is basically pretty ressemblant to Zulus or Iroquois culturally speaking I think. That's the reason why I think they shouldn't be in.

For Khmers, I hesitated. I'm not sure if in fact, they aren't simply a mix of all around influences. They have India near, Japan, China. Don't know if Khmers is a distinct culture or if it is in fact a mix of all, without distinctive factor really. That's why I wont put Quebecois or Canadians. Us Quebecois and Canadians are more a mix of all around factors. Of course we developed difference reliated to the environment, but we're still an extension of many cultures that passed here. As many other cultures.

And for Aborigens, I am not sure if it isn't like the Polynesians' case. It's a little like eskimos, that I prefer class as beeing in-classed in "Algonquins" that I chosed and would maybe fit the Aborigens too. Or maybe Aborigens are distinctive?


I don't matter myself about having a whole in the terrestrial world map. I don't think we should consider such a factor to add civs.

	12-10-2001 08:10									#58
	Mon Remove this text

Hi Locutus

Firstly the Mons are an influential ethnic people of SE Asia, at one time their empire was spread from Burma through Siam to the Cambodia. Ethnically their are very close to the Khmer. There are still enclaves of Mon In Thailand, but they mostly now live in Southern Burma.

Geordies was actually a joke for my friend from Newcastle who visits visits this site. Geordie is the nickname for people from the Newcastle area in England. Most English regions have their own nicknames, such as Cockneys from London, Scousers from Liverpool, Brummies from Birmingham etc. etc. These people also speak English with their own regional accent, thus it is possible to know where a person comes from as soon as they start to talk.

But If you don't want Geordies I will change to Mongols.

	12-10-2001 08:21									#59
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I have to disagree with you, Trifna. I think the location of a civ on the Earth map is a very valid concern and should be considered when thinking about the XP civs. You may not play on the Earth map very often, but I sure do and I hate it when one civ goes almost uncontested on a large land mass (Americans anyone?). Location is also a much less subjective reason for picking a civ for the game. The "worthiness" of a civ usually reflects the bias of the individual making the decision.

I agree that the Khmer can be viewed as a mixture of other cultures, but the same is true for many other civs. Korea is heavily influenced by China and Japan. Poland is influenced by numerous other civs, especially Germanic and Slavic. I guess I really don't care what civs you pick to fill the holes on the Earth map, just as long as they are filled. Khmer, Mon, Thai, Vietnamese, whatever you want to fill the gap. Replace the Polynesians with the Aborigines if you prefer it. Or Mali could be replaced with Ghana or the Songhai. I just want to fill out the map, so the game will be more balanced. Now I just need to think of a civ to place in eastern South America.....

	12-10-2001 08:24									#60
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I cannot understand why an influential culture such as the spanish is not in the original game. Yeah okay, many have pointed out why Iroqois should be there, but the Spanish, or even Portuguese influence on the world is surely far greater. I did not vote for Spanish though, because they already have plenty of votes.

I wonder how many votes the Iroquois would have received if they were not in the original game. I really don't think they would have even made the top twenty. But commercially we have to take into account where the game is produced and where are most of its sales. Maybe their inclusion also helps to appease the consciences of the non native americans who are producing the game.

Last edited by Boney on 12-10-2001 at 08:38