11-10-2001 00:53									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman I don't quite understand... What I was trying to ask is: Can great leaders be exchanged for normal units INSTEAD of an army? Will I get a reply I wonder? Round here Dan-posts are like gold dust.

Sorry, I didn't realize what you were asking.

By default, Great Leaders can only be used to create armies and rush wonders. Using the editor, you can change the "Build Army" unit into something else, though, so if you wanted Great Leaders to be able to grant you a knight, you could set that up. Then when you used the "Build Army" command with a Great Leader, you'd get a knight instead of an army.

Dan

	11-10-2001 03:07									#32
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wow im realy looking forward to the editors!!!

	12-10-2001 04:26									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Stuie You forgot my favorite rush-build method: keep building a wonder that's already been built, and then switch to a new wonder when it becomes available. Personally, I don't think switching from one wonder to another (or one building to another or one unit to another) should be allowed at all. You should have to start over from scratch.

Either that, or to be less brutal, impose a penalty (like a loss of 50% of the production) when you switch. This would be more realistic, and reduce the 'abuse' of stockpiling production of an old wonder to apply to a not-yet-discovered wonder, but it might be too harsh, forcing you to waste/lose all that production just because Hammurabi beat you to the Hanging Gardens by a turn...)

	12-10-2001 04:49									#34
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watch the firaxian disappear.

multiplayer.


if you're still here, when you "rush a wonder" with a great leader is it done the next turn? or does he add a certain amount of sheilds? or does he speed up the production?

	12-10-2001 05:15									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS Second, because wonders generate a LOT of culture, rush buying wonders with caravans is basically equivalent to buying culture, which pretty much defeats the purpose of culture and eliminates one of the biggest benefits to wonders. Third, by forcing you to "sacrifice" a great leader to rush a wonder, it makes wonders more valuable to you, and you aren't as likely to just start rush buying every "leftover" wonder that you hasn't been built yet.

Let me get this straight.
You can, nevertheless, still rush buy wonders and still get a great leader later, right?
Because I can be a really peace loving Civ, and keep rush buying wonders, not needing any great leader!
Or not?

	12-10-2001 09:09									#36
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As I understand cash is used to upkeep units, diplomacy, and rush buying anything *except* great wonders.
(I *think* small wonders can be rushbuyed)
It may be possible to do some trick like rushbuy a large facility then switch to a great wonder. Really depends if such behaivour is explicitly prevented.

	12-10-2001 09:50									#37
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And things like THIS is the only reason I still have two copies of Civ3 on preorder - Yes, I am DEVESTASTED that MP will NOT be included in the first release of Civ3 - but, I am still an avid Civ player, so at least I can play with / fugure out the workings of the game (ie, Great Leaders). Then, when Civ3 MP is eventually released, I will pay for it (yet again), but at least know the working aspects of the game!

	12-10-2001 18:24									#38
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I wonder if military convoys will still be able to speed up wonder production. Similar to building caravans in other cities to help the production of a wonder in one city, but instead of caravans, just any military unit who is then promptly disbanded in the wonder-producing city. Do you think this might work??

	12-10-2001 18:38									#39
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quote: Originally posted by cassembler There's nothing silly to me- but perhaps I am merely confused- this chump horseman can apply his leadership to rush build, but ME, the GREATEST LEADER OF THEM ALL (according to my population), has no such power... ??? ??? A very simple question: what CAN be rush built WITHOUT a great leader?

I believe that anything other than a wonder can be rush built so there will be a use for "extra" cash, just not to build wonders.

I *do* hope that Firaxis "fixed" the stockpiling of shields from one wonder to the next like CtP did. For those who didn't play the CtP series, when one wonder was completed it was automatically erased from all build queues from all cities around the world, regardless of ho owned the city. THis balanced the aspect of the game where people would stockpile shields until they developed the tech to build a different wonder.

This actually makes sense from a realistic stand-point because how are you going to transform all those blocks of granite from the pyramids to the colossus in one turn? Didn't make sense, and this fixed that as well as making the "race to build a wonder" a real race and not merely an exercise in how long a player wanted to keep a city producing shields for some later purpose.

	12-10-2001 18:38									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns .... military unit ... disbanded in the wonder-producing city. Do you think this might work??

Obviously depends on disbanding. I've allways found it kind of counter-intuitive that you would get useful shields from disbanding. Was this actually also possible in Civ I? Maybe disbanded units will give you money, analogous to selling city improvements. Anyway, my guess thus is that what you propose cannot be done in Civ III.

	12-10-2001 18:41									#41
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Can "armies" be built when you don't own a great leader? How many units can be stacked in an army? The army unit itself, does it have an attack and defence value and a movement rating?

	12-10-2001 18:43									#42
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I agree with the thought that disbanding a unit should give cash and not shields because once you've made a sword it might not be easy to convert into a rifle, but the cash generated from selling that sword and armor could easily buy more materials for making those riflemen.

	12-10-2001 18:45									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Freddz Can "armies" be built when you don't own a great leader? How many units can be stacked in an army? The army unit itself, does it have an attack and defence value and a movement rating?

I believe once you have a military academy and maybe some other building/wonder/government you will be able to build an army without needing a Great Leader.

I believe a max of three units can be used in an army (could be four, not sure).

I think the army has a movement rating, but not sure if the "army" unit itself has attack and defense or if it merely reflects the values of the units it is transporting/composed of.

	12-10-2001 20:42									#44
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Thanks for the info, even though part of it is just guesses.

I'm a bit suspicious if it will work good this "transport"-like army...? Anyone else with concerns about it? It rather sounds like a silly idea: a unit that in itself only means there can be more units stacked on it going to war. Also, the concept sounds like it can be abused and be overly powerful if it is difficult getting armies.

BUT, yes, wise-asses, I do know we can't judge that now. We'll see when the game comes out. And if extremely well balanced, MAYBE it will add a lot of depth and variation to the game... and not turn the game to something one doesn't want it to be - the first one to get an army-unit can often crush another civilization. Hmmm...

Anyone else suspicious about this "army"-business? I suspect many of us are suspicious because we haven't gotten much info about it. On the other hand, the question must be asked why we haven't gotten much info about it.

	12-10-2001 21:45									#45
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Good army info from Dan:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=29118

	12-10-2001 22:23									#46
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Advantages:
1. Seems you have to have an army to use units like catapults and cannons.
2. mixing units with offensive and denfensive advantages.
The best candidate units for army is ROMAN legion:
3/3/1 make it the best defensive unit in the ancient time, yet with good offensive ability.
I image the best army in ancient time is the mixture of 2 ROMAN legions and a catapult. That makes Roman legion the best unit in ancient time.

	12-10-2001 22:54									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Blake It may be possible to do some trick like rushbuy a large facility then switch to a great wonder. Really depends if such behaivour is explicitly prevented.

If they maintained the restrictions in SMAC, you would lose something like half of your production when you switch between units, facilities, and wonders, so this would be quite expensive and wouldn't get you very close to finishing the wonder.