10-10-2001 23:19									#1
	Exploration Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

This just got posted to the MOO3 board, so I figured I'd drag it over here for your enjoyment...
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Alan has decided, in his infinite wisdom, that I may reveal the various secrets of exploration that you may better anticipate the game.

Or something like that.

So here's how it works now. This could change, of course, and it may also be that I don't have some of the details exactly right, but this should be pretty close.

Exploration happens in a couple of stages:

1) When a ship first visits a system, regardless of how long it stays there, it gathers information on the number and size of planets (for our purposes, moons are just planets that happen to orbit around another planet). Some system specials can be discovered at this stage.

2) If those ships stay until the end of the turn, they gather basic information on each planet - it's overall mineral richness, bio-diversity, how well suited it is to their species, etc. The remaining system specials and some planetary specials can be discovered at this stage, and migration to this planet can now begin.

3) The next stage of exploration requires exploration ships which are equipped with special labs for this purpose. These ships will do a detailed exploration of each planet in the system (which can be quite time consuming). They will provide the empire with a detailed survey of each region on each planet. The remaining planetary specials and some regional specials will be discovered at this stage, and once it is complete we are allowed to land colony ships and/or outposts.

4) The final stage of exploration does not occur until you have at least a population point on the planet. Once a region has a full population point on it, there is a change each turn that any remaining undiscovered regional specials will be discovered.

Kevin Dill, MOO3 AI Programmer
Quicksilver Software, Inc.

	10-10-2001 23:42									#2
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So it seems that you should be able to speed up the process by putting those special labs on your exploration ships.

In real life, we are able to do some system exploration from home, just using telescopes. We have been able to detect the presence of planets and such.

	11-10-2001 00:03									#3
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Yes, you could do that if you felt the risks were worth it. I'm sure some players will.

	11-10-2001 05:11									#4
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This is well defined and realistic. For the stage 3) detailed exploration by "exploration ships", does that mean a standard military scout not equipped with a special lab, only with weapons, cannot perform that duty - then no colonization ?

	11-10-2001 08:00									#5
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That would be correct.

	11-10-2001 21:23									#6
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I notice a number of interesting things in that post.

1. In point 2. Kevin says "If those ships stay until the end of the turn", and point 1 is covering what a ship discovers "no matter how long it stays". Together that says to me that maybe not at first, but eventually, certain ships at least will be able to swing through a system and out again within a turn. Yes, I'm sure reading over all of the info on moo3.com about space travel probably tells me this, but it if it does, it didn't stick in my mind.

It also suggests to me that the space movement system may actually have a waypoint setting element to it. So I may be able to tell a scout to go to systems X, Y, and Z, and just use it to pick out the systems in my range with the most planets so I can start more detailed surveys on them first. Would be very nice for that. Not to mention all the devious little tricks that one could use for hiding ones true target of attack by appearing to be heading one way before changing and going another.


2. In point 2 he also mentions migration, then in point 3 mentions colonization as a seperate thing. Makes it sound like he's meaning something different by migration and makes me wonder what is being meant.


3. Points 3 and 4 make it clear that getting all of the dirt on a planet will take time. This suggests that the speed of locating colonizable planets will be as much a restricting factor in empire growth as the speed of building colony ships, and definitely more than it was in MOO 1 or 2.


All together, I like the way this sounds. Makes me think the pacing of the early game will be much more to my liking.

	11-10-2001 21:52									#7
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1. It's possible for a ship to move through multiple systems, but that's not going to happen in the early part of the game because the engines won't be fast enough to do it. As to the movement system, I can't say because I haven't been involved in that particular interface.

2. Yes, migration is a separate thing. There will be some natural movement of your people, partly based upon conditions and partly based on natural growth; this movement is largely beyond the player's control, though it can be influenced. It's divided into three categories: migrants (people looking for a better home within their current empire), pioneers (people looking to settle neutral worlds), and emigrants (people who're sick and tired of your empire and want OUT).

3. Yes, probably so. There's certainly a lot more involved in exploration than meets the eye, and it should help keep that part of the game more entertaining for the player through the course of the game, because you'll still have to do some amount of exploration when you take over enemy systems.

	11-10-2001 22:28									#8
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Glad to hear that. For me eXploration, and eXpansion and eXploitation where always the _fun_ parts of a 4x game, with eXtermination at a distant poor fourth place. In fact, once I'm in a convincing position to actaully do the eXtermination, I mostly quit playing anyway.

Anything that makes exploration and exploitation last longer is good in my book. See the horrible abortion that was RFTS for what happens when you "de-empasize" these parts of the game.

	12-10-2001 02:09									#9
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I know this may sound silly and Ot to what you peeps here are talking about, but will it be possible for a player to discover a thriving (most probably primitive) inteligent species on a planet they explore? I mean, that's whats Orions did to humans, right ?

	12-10-2001 02:16									#10
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No, I don't think that specific thing is possible.

	12-10-2001 04:00									#11
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Oooooh, ooooh, make it an event!!!

	13-10-2001 02:28									#12
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Yes, it should be. More like discovering a civilization that is eager to join your empire and grands you a secret technology (but only up to a certain level ). This event could be Rare, Expansionist? cycle, Sci-fi classification and would most probably last forever (I can't think of quotes at the moment...

What do you think?

	13-10-2001 09:14									#13
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What's considered a population point, by the way?

Edit: I'm just asking this because I think I saw on a screenshot about population that it was represented by 0.1. What's the difference between 1 and 0.1?

	13-10-2001 19:01									#14
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One order of magnitude, I'd say. (ducking and running very quickly)

So far as representations on the screen, I'm not entirely sure what you'll see, but any numbers should at least be explained so that you know whether you need 1 or .1 or 100 for something to happen.

	26-10-2001 20:52									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Cybergod I know this may sound silly and Ot to what you peeps here are talking about, but will it be possible for a player to discover a thriving (most probably primitive) inteligent species on a planet they explore? I mean, that's whats Orions did to humans, right ?

That's what I like about Birth of the Federation (even though it has several shortcomings).

	27-10-2001 03:42									#16
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OK, I'm hoping that I didn't kil the thread with my suggestion...

There could be several scenarios happening when you meet a civilization on a planet, depending on your influence, might or "carma" ...

1) The inhabitants are overwhelmed by you! They join your empire, you gain #AU

2) The inhabitants but up a pathetic fight and are almost exterminated. The planet is free for colonization.

3) The inhabitants are an advanced culture! They gladly join your empire and give you #AUs and a "blah, blah" technology!

4) The inhabitants are both advanced and very hostile towards us! They have engaged our ships in combat! (the game switches to battle screen, to conquer the planet, standard combat rules apply)

So, what do you think?

	27-10-2001 04:20									#17
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Cybergod, unless you have already done it, transmit your ideas within the Events engine compounds the team ask to the fans ( see event thread by Stormhound ). For example, when you find a lost/primitive/remote/unknown civ, the player can have certain Luck card ( acting as shield against an aggressive new civ ), or a skilled ambassador for easier first contact ( in that case a character card with unlimited duration), or a Fate card dedicated to a random empire with an omniscient scanner showing a rich location, etc...etc..... with some side effects too...