11-10-2001 04:22									#1
	If MP got delayed, what else got delayed? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

There are many that say they don't care about MP, because they don't play it. They're right in some regard Civ is primarily a SP game.

Personally I'm really worried about Scenario support. We already know that there is no macro language whether or not there was going to be but it got axed is unknown. MP was delayed so that they could concentrate on the main game, what about scenarios? They aren't part of the main game either. So even though were probably looking at nominal support I'm expecting tons of bugs wrt scenarios ala CTP.

Before anyone jumps in calling Firaxis/IFGM greedy, and trying to make a quick buck. I don't believe that's the case I think that they felt that further delays weren't justified and the fans would rather have the core game in thier hands now.

Another possibility is that IFGM needs the cash now and are facing a slight liquidity problem^1 thier financials aren't the picture of a healthy company.

Can you allay my fears.

^1 I'm not sure if it's the case for Civ3, but developers often get financing through the publisher. Oh and Firaxis games aren't really selling right now.

edit: Fixed some spacing and spelling mistakes. Changed financials link.

Last edited by Moral Hazard on 11-10-2001 at 05:17

	11-10-2001 05:12									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If MP got delayed, what else got delayed?

• multiplayer
  
• playing with your friends
  
• lan parties
  
• tcp/ip games
  
• pbem games
  
• civextravaganzas (basically a week long lan)
  

	11-10-2001 08:05									#3
	Got spare money?

Well we know that they would have liked to do a public beta test, so maybe that got delayed until people buy the game...

	11-10-2001 08:27									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

What do you mean by "liquidity problem"s ?

I started tracking their stock since 10/2/2001, and it's gone from 3.31 to 4.03, which is a 21.75% increase . . .

But I know nothing about how these financial things work for businesses, so I'm ignorant. Could you explain?

*takes a second look . . .*
Sales - 5 Yr. Growth Rate -38.187
Ouch! I'm beginning to see what you are talking about; maybe I haven't been tracking them long enough . . .

Net Income/Employee (TTM) -1e+08
*faints*

Their employees are losing $100,000,000? Is that possible?

I'll buy Civ III, but I don't have +1e+08 to spare . . .

A lot of those numbers are negative, whereas in the industry they are positive; I'm no expert, but that doesn't look like a good sign to me . . .

Hopefully, the trend I started tracking since the 2nd will continue . . . maybe Civ III will rebound them ?

Anyway, I'm lucky I'm doing fantasy stock and not real stock .

	11-10-2001 08:32									#5
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

i bought some infogrames stock, is that a bad thing?

	11-10-2001 08:59									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: What do you mean by "liquidity problem"s

It means they may need cash to pay thier current bills.

quote: I started tracking their stock since 10/2/2001, and it's gone from 3.31 to 4.03, which is a 21.75% increase . . .

Price fluctuations over a period of a month, don't mean much.

quote: Their employees are losing $100,000,000? Is that possible?

No it's an error. I'll write thestreet about it.

quote: A lot of those numbers are negative, whereas in the industry they are positive; I'm no expert, but that doesn't look like a good sign to me . . .

Yes, they haven't done well in the past, but they have had to amortize a lot of costs, from buying new companies GT, Hasbro Interactive. I'd recommend you grab a finance or accounting text book (a library probably has one) to get a gist of what these numbers mean.

Dain:
The mistake you made is that you bought without checking the financials, not a good idea. The financials are however backward looking and they tend to factored into the stock price. As to forward direction, IFGM expects to be profitable in 2002, if they are profitable then the stock price should move up quite a bit.

My final answer is no, the cheap price you paid for IFGM was because of this information. (assuming you didn't buy at $11 or more)

	11-10-2001 09:02									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

P.S I'm not saying they have a real liquidity problem, but it's a possible reason for why they might not have delayed the game.

	11-10-2001 09:07									#8
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Well does anyone know what scenario support will be like?

Posting three times in a row, is my insidious way of raising my post count

	11-10-2001 09:08									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I this age of 'release and patch,' it's obvious the game is being put out for holiday sales knowing full well that most gamers are addicts and will buy now and ask questions later.

For the old and jaded people like me, though: I've learned my lesson and will only buy the game after May or so (when it will likely be in as about as good a shape as it will ever be).

Is this criticism of Firaxis? Not really. Of the industry? In some ways. Of gamers? I'd like to...but it's kind of like not understanding why a crack addict will eat out of trash can before really stopping the drug-intake.

	11-10-2001 09:35									#10
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

well, do u think it should be too much of a problem if i bought it at 3.50 and then i seel it right after civ3 sells a bunch, or do u think i should wait until moo3?

	11-10-2001 09:37									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Sorry never could figure out when to sell. MOO3 won't make any difference it's a small project. But check thier consule line thats where the money is.

	11-10-2001 09:45									#12
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I've always said that Firaxis is only producing what is demanded by the publisher, Infogrames. Think back, when Firaxis was talking about a "fully integrated MP system", who were they working for; Hasbro or Infogrames? Infogrames only bought out Hasbro Interactive about a year ago.

And why is MP delayed? Is Infogrames demading a MP system that will easily translate to the new game consoles(Cube & X-Box). The Industry buzz is the new consoles will make computer online gaming obsolete. Looking at the Infogrames websites, other than the north american one, it is obvious that console games are the main focus of Infogrames business.

And looking at the preformance of Infogrames stock, most of the dips have been in conjunction with a announcement about a delay in the rollout of the new game consoles. Delays in the X-Box have really hit Infogrames stock hard, as they are probably the top third party publisher for the X-Box. They have alot invested in the future of console gaming, and will reap hugh rewards once the systems are out.

	11-10-2001 10:24									#13
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Swissy:
Yeah IFGM likes to say they're the number one 3rd party developer for the Xbox. They'll release with two games, NASCAR® Heat™ 2002 (should do well) and Test Drive™ Off-Road - Wide Open (Not sure). The surfing game will probably get anihilated by Activisions new surfing game. Correction: Made a mistake on the surfing game, I thought Activision was publishing this game, it will do quite well. Unreal Championship will sell very poorly.

As to Civ3, that won't transfer at all to consules. A port would probably sell around 5000 copies.

quote: BEVERLY, Mass. - September 4, 2001 - Imagine receiving a personal greeting or bedtime wish from Justin or Lance? Now you can! With Infogrames, Inc.’s (Nasdaq: IFGM) *NSYNC® Hotline Fantasy Phone and CD-ROM Game, *NSYNC fans can connect with the band one-on-one. Shipping to most retail stores this week and developed with input from the band members themselves, the world’s first *NSYNC interactive phone and CD-ROM game allows fans to experience Lance, Chris, Joey, Justin and JC’s real voices, view never-before-seen video footage, learn new trivia and hear the boys’ secret voicemail messages. “*NSYNC is a musical sensation whose fans are constantly striving to learn the ‘inside scoop’ and experience the band in new ways,” says Nancy MacIntyre, vice president of marketing for Infogrames’ Beverly Label. “Because the game was developed with the boys and incorporates their personalities, the *NSYNC Hotline Fantasy Phone and CD-ROM Game links fans to the band like never before.”

Arghh! I changed my mind, short now! Because it's the right thing to do.