12-10-2001 05:51									#31
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

That and a number of the best ideas in the friggen game came directly from here! It reminds me of Jeff Briggs comment in an interview: "Yeah, there is this site that gave some ideas..."

Just 'this site' for God's sake. Absolutely and in all ways what a pathetic display. And even Soren is talked about at the guy who came up with 'high level' ideas like culture.

Well, culture came FROM HERE.

In the face of all that, to screw with us in the Firaxis fashion is finally convincing me they are a second-rate company at best.

	12-10-2001 05:52									#32
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HEIL YIN.

	12-10-2001 05:53									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Jingo but honestly, confirmation on a few key issues would shut us all up. multiplayer. multiplayer.

Amen

	12-10-2001 05:59									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Jingo but honestly, confirmation on a few key issues would shut us all up.

LOL, I will believe it when I see it.

Second rate company? whatever you say Yin.

Name one that is undeniably better.

	12-10-2001 06:02									#35
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Ensemble Studios could take Firaxis out to a back lot and beats its a$$ from here until the next millenium. In part precisely because they put a premium on the gamers' ability to help them craft an outstanding product.

	12-10-2001 06:12									#36
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Ok, I had no clue who they were and visited their site. AOE series, hmmm not bad.

"What other games do they make?"

*searching website........still searching...... still searching......*

Thats it? Just the AOE series? They have been around for so long and just one series of sequel-expansion-sequel-expansion. It ain't bad, but it sure ain't all that great either.

	12-10-2001 06:16									#37
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by yin26 Ensemble Studios could take Firaxis out to a back lot and beats its a$$ from here until the next millenium. In part precisely because they put a premium on the gamers' ability to help them craft an outstanding product.

Bruce Shelley is the big man at ES. He was Sid's partner in Civ1.

They did take forever to put out a much needed patch, though. But this blame goes to Microsoft.

I believe a lot of what's going on can be blamed on Infogrames, and not Firaxis. But I'm not "up" on the politics going on over there so I don't think anyone can know for sure.

	12-10-2001 06:17									#38
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yeah, I have noticed microsoft games take a while to get the first patch.

	12-10-2001 06:25									#39
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Yes, Microsoft held back the patch...which caused numerous problems. And don't worry: ES has a 'new game' in the works. No need to blame them for making one of the absolutely best made RTS's EVER and then improving on it.

You'll see something different from them soon, though.

	12-10-2001 06:38									#40
	Got spare money?

quote: Don't lecture me. Every comment I have made is constructive...at least as much as what you posted. By the way: Nicely put until your pointless remark at the end.

Did I strike a nerve Yin? You poor thing. Really didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

Frankly, telling people not to buy the game isn't constructive at all, and if it is contributing to the development of a better Civilization game, please enlighten us all by telling us how.

	12-10-2001 06:41									#41
	Tired of ads?

Strike a nerve? I'm just saying that your silly last line actually ruined an otherwise good post. In other words: You wanted to be constructive yourself and then blew it at the end.

	12-10-2001 06:42									#42
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I have to tell you Yin, you make a lot of good points, and you treament by Firaxis is typical. I received the same type of treament from them when I was the Web Master. In terms of communication problems and lack of political tact, they have those problems in abundance.

They are a young company, and I believe they still have yet to flush out how to deal with the public and fans more effectively and ethically.

	12-10-2001 06:43									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Strike a nerve? I'm just saying that your silly last line actually ruined an otherwise good post. In other words: You wanted to be constructive yourself and then blew it at the end.

You're right... I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said that.

	12-10-2001 06:59									#44
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Wow! Peace has been struck. I really did like the post, though, and totally understand why you are leery volunteering your time for Firaxis. Obviously I should finally learn that lesson myself. It's unfortunate because they really do have a lot of talent over there...

	12-10-2001 07:52									#45
	Inflate your Upload Space

Firaxis, I'm in favor of solid gameplay and quality over extraneous feature quantity. No MP is not a problem. It might have been cool to try, but civilization's core does not revolve around MP.... it can be added later and I'm cool with it.

Keep up the good work! Not everyone here is a whiny 14 yr old kid! To use a bad cliche, Take everything with a grain of salt.

	13-10-2001 04:35									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by squid Firaxis, I'm in favor of solid gameplay and quality over extraneous feature quantity. No MP is not a problem. It might have been cool to try, but civilization's core does not revolve around MP.... it can be added later and I'm cool with it. Keep up the good work! Not everyone here is a whiny 14 yr old kid! To use a bad cliche, Take everything with a grain of salt.

I should take that "MP added later" with a saltshaker please. I've been busy reading up on some old history and slapping on MP might not be as easy as you think. It was quite a challenge for Civ1 and Civ2 it seems. Besides a technical side there's also a MP gameplay side -which is far harder to get right-.

And gameplay can't be patched so easily....

	13-10-2001 05:20									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin . In terms of communication problems and lack of political tact, they have those problems in abundance. They are a young company, and I believe they still have yet to flush out how to deal with the public and fans more effectively and ethically.

Ahhhh; now I understand why it was so easy to win CivII, if you always kept your reputation spotless. I am afraid it will be the same with CivIII.

Does it click already?

1. Firaxians cannot do that; their reputation never goes much above horrible.
2. There has been only in-house beta-testing.

	13-10-2001 06:11									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Well I personally am happy that thier's no mulitplayer; because that means they use all thier time and resources on making the best SP game of all-time. It's a positive that thier's no multiplayer NOT a negative.

	13-10-2001 06:12									#49
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Most (not all) of the people saying "I'm glad SP is out, who cares about MP" are loners. They most likely have few, if any friends, and can't find a person to play a MP game with them if their life depended on it. They also most likely can't stand to lose, and love the ability to reload, reload, reload that game until they win (something you can't do in MP). Their rudeness and lack of sympathy to the MP crowds shock and disapointment is just more proof of their lack of social conscious. They got "their" game; they don't need or even want other humans disrupting their game of solitare, so #@&* the MP crowd.

If MP was in both Civ II, AND CtP II, the fact that CivIII does not have it is just insane! Anyone who knows anything about programming knows that you just can't add a patch or update to make a game MP; not without plenty of testing needed BEFORE the game was relesed.

	13-10-2001 08:43									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by squid Firaxis, I'm in favor of solid gameplay and quality over extraneous feature quantity. No MP is not a problem. It might have been cool to try, but civilization's core does not revolve around MP.... it can be added later and I'm cool with it. Keep up the good work! Not everyone here is a whiny 14 yr old kid! To use a bad cliche, Take everything with a grain of salt.

actually, i think most of the people whining are, to my great surprise, grown men. I, one of the few actual 14-year olds on the site, am not offended by your comment, but it does make me want to point out that i whine almost the least of anyone on here.

	13-10-2001 08:58									#51
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Well put dainbramaged.

And for anyone who is keeping tabs, I am NOT a 14 year old, but rather a 38 year young.

	13-10-2001 11:54									#52
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Q:

quote: Why [doesn't] the MP crowd just shut up and go play CtP or something ?

A: Free Speech, as well as the desire to constructively criticize a free enterprise marketing endeavor. [keyword: constructive]

quote: It's unfortunate because they really do have a lot of talent over there...

Yeah they do... They have bosses though, too, and their bosses do, just like a boss does, tell them what will and what will not happen. PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, but your whole *beef* is that *they* haven't said anything about MP intentionally- deceptionally or not- in order to attempt to keep the MP market flexible? If that statement is correct, please understand that it's probably not Joe Bob @ Firaxis' fault- understand that it was probably an executive sales level decision... but I could be wrong.

(Hey guys! Now none of us are gonna leak our marketing strategy, right??? RIGHT!?!? [all who want to KEEP THEIR JOBS nod in approval])

just a hunch...

	13-10-2001 12:07									#53
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: GamesMun's words-o-wisdom: Most (not all) of the people saying "I'm glad SP is out, who cares about MP" are loners. They most likely have few, if any friends, and can't find a person to play a MP game with them if their life depended on it. They also most likely can't stand to lose, and love the ability to reload, reload, reload that game until they win (something you can't do in MP). Their rudeness and lack of sympathy to the MP crowds shock and disapointment is just more proof of their lack of social conscious. They got "their" game; they don't need or even want other humans disrupting their game of solitare, so #@&* the MP crowd.

I love you too, man. Thanks for understanding and clarifying that some of us SPlayers are losers. I mean, I wasn't really sure, but NOW I can sleep well, feeling good about myself.

Humble advice: Please wash off the "lack of social concious" odor you carry with you before posting again.

	13-10-2001 12:18									#54
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Now if there was constructive critiques, I could understand, but can someone please tell me what is so constructive about : "Firaxis sucks, they don't have multiplayer, don't buy it!". Real constructive .

Fine, you don't like the fact that it doesn't have multiplayer. Don't buy it and put Civ3 out of your minds. Do you have nothing better to do than to constantly complain about a computer game? Vote with your wallet and don't buy the game. Then forget about it and leave.

What does *****ing accomplish? That's right... nothing!

	13-10-2001 12:29									#55
	ANNOUNCEMENT!!! Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I'm happy to announce that not all SPlayers are losers. I have a job as an Audio Engineer. My "job" consists of making music happen, drinking ridiculous amounts of alcohol, um (censored for the family crowd, but we all know what musicians do...), enjoying ridiculous amounts of female genitalia (at least recently, though it goes in waves...), sleeping, ordering pizza, and making money. I have many friends of many walks of life, and I like to play Civilization, SINGLE PLAYER STYLE (insert salsa music here for best effect).

I also respect the MPlayer's view, though only recently thanks to YIN and LOCUTUS (spelled right man?), among other respectful, constructive Mplayer's views.

Please don't make personal stabs at people you don't know, and please understand that I'm not trying to offend you; rather pointing out an impolite remark.

	13-10-2001 13:00									#56
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by GamesMun Most (not all) of the people saying "I'm glad SP is out, who cares about MP" are loners. They most likely have few, if any friends, and can't find a person to play a MP game with them if their life depended on it. They also most likely can't stand to lose, and love the ability to reload, reload, reload that game until they win (something you can't do in MP). Their rudeness and lack of sympathy to the MP crowds shock and disapointment is just more proof of their lack of social conscious. They got "their" game; they don't need or even want other humans disrupting their game of solitare, so #@&* the MP crowd. If MP was in both Civ II, AND CtP II, the fact that CivIII does not have it is just insane! Anyone who knows anything about programming knows that you just can't add a patch or update to make a game MP; not without plenty of testing needed BEFORE the game was relesed.

I'm glad you like to group people in whole catagories; it must make it easier for you to pass judgment on people who don't think like you do.

Some of us who couldn't care less about MP (at least me at this point), are blessed with many friends(some of which couldn't care less about Civ 3), so to use a word you so absurdly uttered, us "loner's" are quite content with Firaxis' job on the game to date.

If they happen to develop a MP element at a later date(which is more than likely at this point), and if one has to pay for it, I hope Firaxis will remember this comment of yours and ask you to pay twice as much for you to play on their server!

	13-10-2001 19:09									#57
	Remove this text

Good original post Jason.

The truth is the awful way they're handling the MP issue over at Firaxis is going to hurt them in sales. Alot of the people who bought Civ2 MPG aren't going to hand over money until they get a better answer than "we're working on it". Tell the fans the MP patch will be free to download, and will include PBEM/hotseat if at all possible. That'd shut me up for a start.

David

	13-10-2001 21:38									#58
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I agree with you Crouchback.

I think MP should be a free download as well, because I feel that it was unfair not to tell people from the start that MP wasn't going to be in the original release. Even if they didn't promise us that MP would be in, they were happy to let us believe that it would be there.

I honestly don't expect them to spend tons of hours and money on MP without making us pay for it though, so it probably won't be in a patch. Even if we already bought the game, they are a company that is profit driven, just like any other, and they will surely make the right business decision rather than consciously try to correct a public communications error (which is what I think this is).

	14-10-2001 01:01									#59
	I agree Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Yeah, I'm a 100% Splayer, but I feel the pain of the MPlayers... Think about it this way, what if the announcement was reversed, MP but no SP? I WOULD BE FURIOUS!!!!!!!!!

I hope for Firaxis' sake that they respond slickly and with dignity in their decision. I pointed out on another thread that it's probably not Joe Bob@Firaxis' call, it was probably an executive sales level decision.

	16-10-2001 00:25									#60
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quote: Yeah, I'm a 100% Splayer, but I feel the pain of the MPlayers... Think about it this way, what if the announcement was reversed, MP but no SP? I WOULD BE FURIOUS!!!!!!!!!

Holy sh1t! Someone with a little bit of empathy!
Someone that actually gets it!

Hats off to cass.

Oh Immy please, you know wherever you end up, your lips are going to be suction cupped to the bosses butt.

Me? No, I don't kiss anyones ass.