11-10-2001 23:09									#1
	FIRAXIS... Time for Damage Control on the MP Issue! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

This message is for Firaxis:

There is some major dissent going on in these forums and I think your organization really needs to pay attention to what people are saying here and come up with a good response.

The key gripe that customers have is that you did indicate that this game would be multiplayer, and retailers did start taking pre-orders before you anounced that it wouldn't be in there. So, in a way, those customers that pre-ordered this game for the multiplayer portion of it are being treated unfairly. For those that want MP and bought the pre-release video are really screwed because they can't take that back.

More importantly, I believe you have insulted many fans (myself included) by the method in which your communications department allowed the news about MP to be released. Not only did you willful witheld that information, but you allowed the news to trickle out in a few lines of an interview, without any real explanation of what were the problems with implementing it now, or any direction of where you plan on taking MP.

These people are so devoted to your game and many are very loyal to your company. They deserve to be treated with a little more respect than what has been demonstrated in your most recent actions.

If anything, your company needs to develop better strategies to notify your most supportive fans of news that is obviously going to be dissappointing. Your communications department needs to think more stragically and develop better forcasting skills to understand the impact their methods of communicating with the public has on Firaxis' reputation.

This is a problem that has been ongoing with your company for quite some time because I remember back when I was the Web Master for Beyond Alpha Centauri (now the Apolyton SMAC site), communication between me and your company was a real issue. It was the reason why I decided to distance myself from the volunteer work of promoting and supporting your products.

So, please demonstrate to your fans here that you do appreciate them and put the MP issue to rest. Also, make a serious effort to improve your communication policies and how information is delivered to your consumers.

Thank you!

Last edited by Jason Beaudoin on 12-10-2001 at 06:52

	11-10-2001 23:14									#2
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Yawn...

	11-10-2001 23:14									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Well my message to Firaxis is: Well Done!

I'm glad you got out the SP because that means you concentrated on completing that part and decided not to rush MP. I don't feel like I should be penalized with a delay in the game for an aspect of the game that I don't care about. And no MP means that the SP will be of higher quality. A release with both would mean an inferior SP as well as an inferior MP!

Go Firaxis! (Well a friend does want to play MP with me, but if he didn't ask, I wouldn't have even thought about it.)

Last edited by Pembleton on 11-10-2001 at 23:19

	11-10-2001 23:20									#4
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Personally, I couldn't care less about MP. In fact, I probably will never play MP.

The point of my message is that their delivery of the news is deplorable. We deserve better than that.

	11-10-2001 23:41									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin Personally, I couldn't care less about MP. In fact, I probably will never play MP. The point of my message is that their delivery of the news is deplorable. We deserve better than that.

Agree totally. Makes you wonder if they gave everyone the week off when it went gold since there is such a black hole of news.

	11-10-2001 23:46									#6
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quote: I'm glad you got out the SP because that means you concentrated on completing that part and decided not to rush MP. I don't feel like I should be penalized with a delay in the game for an aspect of the game that I don't care about.

This is pembys game after all
Oh and wexus too I think

Very nice post Jason. Well put. But if you expect them to actually come here and be honest *concept* about this, you're fooling yourself.

Maybe another marketing appearance to try to boost sales one more time. But to answer the tough questions? Nah.

	11-10-2001 23:52									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well, I wouldn't be so sure Drake. I also sent that letter to their communications department, and if I get my hands on any other Firaxis emails, I'm going to do the same.

When I was the Web Master of Beyond Alpha Centauri, I did get responses from Firaxis. I've learned that if you put your message accross professionally, you'll usually get a decent response.

You may be right about them answering those tough questions because that could damage their position on this issue even more.

I think Firaxis never intended on including multiplayer in the initial release. I think that they understood the problems of implementing MP in a turn-based strategy game and they realized that they could make a success of this game without it.

Also, I believe that because the game will sell nicely without MP, they are going to implement MP in an expansion. I believe that the decision not to put MP in is actually a marketing strategy. The expansion will appeal to more people if there's and MP patch built into it.

I think they learned that marketing strategy when Microprose released CIVNET.

Those devils at Firaxis know how to scrape ever dollar out of us don't they.

	11-10-2001 23:58									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin Personally, I couldn't care less about MP. In fact, I probably will never play MP. The point of my message is that their delivery of the news is deplorable. We deserve better than that.

Your solidarity with the MP-crowd is heart warming.

Could it be that the seeds for an Apolyton's civilwar have been planted!? Fellow civer against civer?

	12-10-2001 00:06									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Delivery of what news? Just because they didn't explicitly say that MP would not be in the Oct 2001 release does not ASS-U-ME that it would be in the release. No one can find an official announcement saying that they were committed to having MP in the Oct 2001, so the message is moot, imo.

One can argue that they should have been more "honest" about its status but all of you should have learned by now that Firaxis' modus operandi is to only announce things when they are ready. All the rest is pure speculation and that it the trap that many of you have fallen into.

	12-10-2001 00:19									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Steve Clark Delivery of what news? Just because they didn't explicitly say that MP would not be in the Oct 2001 release does not ASS-U-ME that it would be in the release. No one can find an official announcement saying that they were committed to having MP in the Oct 2001, so the message is moot, imo. One can argue that they should have been more "honest" about its status but all of you should have learned by now that Firaxis' modus operandi is to only announce things when they are ready. All the rest is pure speculation and that it the trap that many of you have fallen into.

Steve what I get out of his post is that first off there isnt anything one way or the other and its causing a hell of alot of trouble when a one word answer would let us all know and let it get worked outta the system. If they would have said its not in a month ago this wouldnt be happening now (you would still have the doomsayers) at this level. With out an answer it goes on day in day out here and it will keep going till we know.

Also since the game went gold we have not had hardly anything new come out. Their site hasnt even been updated. Now is the time for the information to be flowing. And it needs to start with a clear answer on MP.

	12-10-2001 00:23									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Steve, you're right.

We naively got our hopes up for nothing. We thought that our community and opinion have value. We were wrong. We are worthless according to Firaxis.

We thought they would naturally do the right thing. We must be suckers. We should have known that money is all that counts. No point making a quality product if people will buy a substandard product right?

That better Steve? Do I sound like I've caught your drift?

	12-10-2001 00:26									#12
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by drake This is pembys game after all

Interesting response. The only reason why I even made my retort was because of attitudes like Yin's who say *I* shouldn't buy the game because *he* and *you* are upset about the exclusion of MP.

If they decided not to include queues, which is probably the most important improvement in Civ3 over Civ2 for me, I wouldn't be demanding that no-one else buy the game and that everyone else should boycott Firaxis like Yin's claiming.

I would just complain once and then leave this forum forever.

	12-10-2001 00:42									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Fair enough pemb.......

It's just easy to be on the side that is getting what they want....
It's significantly harder to be on the side whos hopes for the game got destroyed.

That being said, I don't really care that much, but its fun arguing about

As you've said over and over, it is only a freakin game. And I'm under no illusion that civ3 will change my life if i do or dont get it.
Though I can't speak for others in that regard

	12-10-2001 01:04									#14
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quote: One can argue that they should have been more "honest" about its status but all of you should have learned by now that Firaxis' modus operandi is to only announce things when they are ready. All the rest is pure speculation and that it the trap that many of you have fallen into.

You almost had me on this one... but the problem remains that the delivery of the news was really poorly done.

I know that Firaxis must play a very delicate balancing act on releasing enough information so that the game flies of the shelves, but enough information to themselves so that expectations are not set too high, which could result in bad reviews.

I appreciate their position and I understand it fully...

...but, I can't think of any reason why they would keep information about MP out of it, other than they either couldn't get it done in time for an October release. If that is the case, they should have simply told us so and moved on.

Regardless, there are much better ways to handle bad news like this, and we deserve better.

	12-10-2001 01:57									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yes, drake, it is fun to argue (or be argumentative), it makes the time go by faster.

	12-10-2001 04:15									#16
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Why don't the MP crowd just shut up and go play CtP or something ? In this day and age, I'm sure Firaxis had to make some choices and didn't just take MP out to spite everyone. Well, not everyone, because I personally don't care.

If you think not having MP will ruin Civ3, that's your problem, but there's people out there who think a decent (or even, GREAT SP) is much more important than a half-assed MP squeezed in 2 months before release.

I've always judged a game by what it delivers, rather than what it *promises* to deliver. If it's fun, it's fun. If it's not fun, then it's not fun, and I'll just have to look elsewhere.

No point getting over-fixatred on one thing. It's not like we only have Civ 3 to play for the next 6 months or 3 years until Civ 4 (or another Civ clone) comes out.

Law of Nature: "Species that are over-specialized become extinct when the climate or environment changes."

	12-10-2001 04:18									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Steve Clark Delivery of what news? Just because they didn't explicitly say that MP would not be in the Oct 2001 release does not ASS-U-ME that it would be in the release. No one can find an official announcement saying that they were committed to having MP in the Oct 2001, so the message is moot, imo.

MULTIPLAYER IS THE FUTURE! SID SAID IT HIMSELF ABOUT GETTYSBURG! I AM SORRY THAT YOU THINK IT IS NAIVEE TO BELIEVE THE PRESIDENT OF THE COMPANY MAKING THE GAME.

	12-10-2001 04:21									#18
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Rakki Why don't the MP crowd just shut up and go play CtP or something ? In this day and age, I'm sure Firaxis had to make some choices and didn't just take MP out to spite everyone. Well, not everyone, because I personally don't care.

I will be going to play SMAC. To me Civ 3 is a downgraded game from their previous releases if it does not have MP.

They clearly did not plan well to develop MP. It should not have been very hard to add PBEM or hotseat. It was there mistake that I am now paying for.

quote: Law of Nature: "Species that are over-specialized become extinct when the climate or environment changes."

And species also go extinct when they fail to adapt to the changing environment. Case in point, MP becoming more and more important. Especially for the staying power of Civ 3.

	12-10-2001 04:21									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Somehow I don't think the amount of people who care about MP in the game is enough to significantly hurt their sales figures, otherwise they would be doing something about it.

	12-10-2001 04:37									#20
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quote: P.S.: Yin... please don't soil this message to Firaxis with any unconstructive comments. I want them to understand that this is a serious oversight on their part.

Don't lecture me. Every comment I have made is constructive...at least as much as what you posted. By the way: Nicely put until your pointless remark at the end.

	12-10-2001 04:41									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

if you havent noticed by now FIRAXIS has a filter for apolyton that removes all threads containing the word "multiplayer"

	12-10-2001 04:42									#22
	Re: FIRAXIS... Time for Damage Control on the MP Issue! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin P.S.: Yin... please don't soil this message to Firaxis with any unconstructive comments. I want them to understand that this is a serious oversight on their part.

So you don't want yin to post in this thread because people can't understand that he wants a good game desperately and sees that Firaxis hasn't delivered it?

Every comment Yin has made goes for some good. He has been constructive in every way. Lately he has been on a crusade for others not to buy the game. But even that was for good. So that Infogrames could see their errors in forcing an unfinished game upon the masses before it was ready.

Ahh, I see yin already responded, well then I can stop here.

	12-10-2001 04:44									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

yin's a uniter not a divider!

	12-10-2001 05:08									#24
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by yin26 Don't lecture me. Every comment I have made is constructive...at least as much as what you posted. By the way: Nicely put until your pointless remark at the end.

Ummm yeah.

	12-10-2001 05:10									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Wexu Yawn...

imo, after this, i no longer trust firaxis/sid meier. they lied, didnt tell us what was/would happen, all for the $.

btw: dont respond with the "well duh its $"

	12-10-2001 05:13									#26
	Put an end to popups!

well duh its $

	12-10-2001 05:18									#27
	Firaxis knows its a problem Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Their silence on the multiplayer issue is telling.

	12-10-2001 05:19									#28
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I agree that it would be good PR for Firaxis to make an official statement about the CivIII MP situation. However, they are no way obligated, morally or financially, to do so.

Now, the BIG reason they should make a statement is this: even though Apolytoners comprise a relatively small percentage of the total CIVer population, we are also the most vocal CIV fans around. A little good PR from Firaxis at this moment might help to quell the bad PR disgruntled Apolytoners are putting out right now.

	12-10-2001 05:46									#29
	Re: Firaxis knows its a problem Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Their silence on the multiplayer issue is telling.

Or they could just be tired of defending every decision they make from a small but overly vocal group of whiners. They don't answer to you, me, or anyone else on the BB. When they do, they do so out of courtesy.

	12-10-2001 05:51									#30
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silence is our enemy. multiplayer.

no news is good news doesn't cut it with a game of this stature. multiplayer.

firaxis really has to step on this one. multiplayer. o think they should go as far as to make a press release on the issue, explaining why MP isnt in, when they think it will be in, and if it will be a free addon or a seperate product. they whine about people being whiney, but honestly, confirmation on a few key issues would shut us all up. multiplayer.

multiplayer.