11-10-2001 23:56									#1
	the Hive and forest Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I don't want to restart that old flame again, but I was surpised today, when I replaced, for the first time, my ALL-FORMERS-ON-AUTO policy for a ALL-FORESTS tactics...

Pretty unimpressive!
The most productive squares were those with nutrient bonus... Other wise, this didn't quite worked out.

The point is that I suspect it's a "Hive thing", maybe related to the insane growth of the Hive, which I normally experience (but not in this game).

Any ideas? Am I doing it wrong? ;-)

	12-10-2001 00:08									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Auto-terraforming SUCKS IMHO !!

I view the terraforming of my little empire as being a key element of the gameplay so I plan it carefully. I do build forests a lot but not for every base. I may have a base that I plan to use specialists only with crawled resources and for that, forests are a waste. If you plan ahead, you will find that forests do play a big part but so will boreholes, condensers, farms and mines. Terraforming is situational and I find my strategy amd method varies a lot depending on my plan for the particular base.

	12-10-2001 00:30									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

AUTO sucks!

period.

	12-10-2001 00:44									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

well... on a rainy world the tiles are quite productive in themselves, you can win with pretty bad terraforming. Try the same on an arid world and about 50% of the terrain will end up unusable (montrosities like farm+solar on arid,flat,<999).

I use the rule "one +2 nut tile per base", "Everything else forest".
Later in the game I add a sprinkling of condensors and boreholes, but if you so desire you can go crazy with condensors and crawlers.

	12-10-2001 02:18									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yes, MANUAL of course!

PS: spam, spam, spam
PSS: I generally do not pursue an all-forest strategy althought I find it a most valuable terraform early in the game. But putting the former on auto makes me feel extremelly not in control (call me a control freak ). I mean, seeing the former wonder endlessly around and around and around the same patch of mag tubes...

	12-10-2001 03:41									#6
	Remove this text

Auto is an evil tool designed by Firaxis to make the game more equal for the AI. 50% of the time, formers on auto move between two squares continously. Ahhhhh! The tiles they do terraform are idiotic, too. Mines on nutrient bonuses, farms on arid soil, etc.
I usually play with a lot of forests, but that may be because I am lazy.

	12-10-2001 03:55									#7
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Manual terra is so boring, it would kill the game without an autofunction.

	12-10-2001 04:02									#8
	Increase Your PM Length

I'll play your killed game then.

	12-10-2001 04:10									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

If you let your formers run on auto you can kiss your *** goodbye in MPs. While your stupid former is making a farm and mine for like 12 turns(!) your competetor have already made 3 forrest! (or just two depending on roads). That's called TURN ADVANTAGES.

	12-10-2001 08:24									#10
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by uncle_funk Manual terra is so boring, it would kill the game without an autofunction.

Sacrilige! Terraforming IS the game! I would burn you alive, except forests are sacred. Therfore I shall just change my Avatar again.
(There is a lot of unstable energy left after the spamming and transition to 500 posts, each time my Avatar changes some energy evaporates, soon it should stabilise....)

	12-10-2001 13:39									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

I used to automate all my formers, when I first started playing, and had other things to concern myself with.
Now I've been playing for a while, I only automate sea formers.
Automated sea formers (auto improve home base) can't really go wrong, but land formers create all sort of weird terraformed combos! prefer to guide them myself, and usually build about 90% forest.

On that note - I automated a sea former the other day, and all it did was build sensors. Now I haven't played for a while, before this week, but I don't remember seeing a sensor in the sea before?

	12-10-2001 13:47									#12
	Manual vs Auto Terraformin' Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Manual all tha way, Man!

One time I was lazy and put all my formers on auto-drive...next thing I know, every available space was covered in roads! I had enemy units using all those extra roads to just walk right to my bases...I learned a very valuable lesson.....the Former drivers are dumb, Only a directive from Homebase will get them straightened out.

	12-10-2001 14:24									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

There seems to be a general agreement that the auto-formers are too stupid to be of much use. If terraforming overwhelms you, then it's time to simplify your forming with a set of rules. Almost all forest is a simple (though partial solution). I make my terraforming decisions rapidly because I know exactly what the square in question should get. I group my formers into gangs to get those squares up and producing quickly. I send a few formers ahead to build roads so that the larger groups of formers don't waste any time leaping off of the road and ending their turn.

Developing a set of terraforming rules usually takes some thought. Influencing your decisions will be your base spacing (or how many tiles each of your bases will have available to work), how quickly your tech is expected to advance, whether you want to build specialist type bases (and what percentage of specialists), whether you want to build energy, nutrient and mineral parks to boost base production etc. It's a complex game, and in many cases you are terraforming for only a portion of the game, and will have to re-terraform areas in order to take advantage of changes in technology.

	12-10-2001 19:16									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The only time I'll trust auto is putting the occasional seaformer to "auto-improve home base" just to relieve the endless former micromanagement. I always have armies of the things running around changing my world. Whether there are a lot of forests depends upon how rainy and fungus-y the world, along with base spacing. The growth of forests helps clear fungus from new areas for development but is a nuisance when it grows over a rolling rainy square and people go hungry.

	13-10-2001 00:37									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

the "rules" i use are:
rocky:mine and crawl
arid or moist/rolling or flat: forest
rainy-farm/solar
lots of farm/solars around each other: mirrors
sensors on forest
borehole coastal.

energy bonus-borehole
nut bonus-if moist forest if rainy condensor/farm 8+ nuts IIRC
min bonus-borehole or mine.

with sea bases, far from land, you need to somehow get a crawler to the mainland and crawl about 50 mines. if the sea base is in a sort of bay or something and has a lot of land squares then you can mostly do harnesses and bore/mine the land. you never have to worry about not enough nut/energy at sea especially with aquafarms and transducers.

	13-10-2001 01:17									#16
	not the terraforming master.... Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

but i'm doin' my best!!!

the only thing i do (and i'm still not sure what's really best) is to make farms on rainy squares, or moist/rolling squares if i have no rainy. once i have as many happy little farms as i need, i'll plant forests, with the hope that they'll expand. then it's time for roads so my dudes can cruise around more easily. after that, some mines. i have to remember to place sensors on my base sites, but sometimes i have to expand too quickly to do that for every base and it's not worth waiting.

i also do not quite have the hang of advanced terraforming, except for boreholes. i don't really know the right ways to use echelon mirrors and condensors. but that's ok, the AI doesn't either.

anyway, no automation for my formers!!! no way, no how. i agree with the people who autoimprove home base with sea formers - i totally do not have the hang of sea forming.

i used to automate every single former, but thanks to vel's guide i saw the light a wihle ago.

	13-10-2001 04:24									#17
	Put an end to popups!

ok does sombody want to explain to me the benefit of putting sensors on base sites? i have heard a lot of people talking about it lately, but have never heard of what it does.

	13-10-2001 04:42									#18
	Increase Your PM Length

A sensor on a base site cannot be destroyed by artillery or other intruders so it acts as a permanent 25% uplift for your troops defending the base . Placing sensors outside your base will get you a better view of the outside world of course but I find they are often victim to a spore launcher ( and don't you hate the offshore variety that sits offshore and bombards your improvements)

I place sensors both ways. I put them on base sites when I can but I will also place them on the frontiers for early warning. You can think of the sensor as an additional combat bonus while fighting in range of the base. Its not crucial but it is often very very handy.

	13-10-2001 07:27									#19
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

ahhh, i see. basically just a sensor you can't kill. good idea. i always thought that improvements were uh destroyed or "rendered useless" when you built a base on them.

we need a "duh" smiley

	13-10-2001 10:01									#20
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I would have to say that EVEN auto-seaformers are bad news for the serious terraformer. Here's the reason: SEA-MINES, takes too long of a time to make and gives so little back, instead go ALL tidal harness (sea-energy), takes less time and gives more than land-dito (especially with Thermocline).

	13-10-2001 10:41									#21
	Got spare money?

Sometimes, when I want to be lax with terraforming and want a challenge, I go all forest + no crawlers. If you give the AI factions some bonuses (by modifying the files - I'm talking about Smack's Super-Builder Factions with +2 industry and growth), you'll really miss having a 30+ mineral base when the AI can start and finish SPs in less than 10 years!

My only problem with condesors+mines is I want to crawl them rather than work them, and then it gets to the point where I have 100 crawlers, and the game moves really slowly...besides, it's unfair because the AI isn't "smart" enough to build lots of them.

****

About sea formers, I find they're the simplest - just farm and harness. In early/mid game (I usually don't build sea bases, but...if I do), playing no crawlers, it's almost a must to have sea bases close to land so you can get some minerals from forests (if I'm going all forests, that means no boreholes!). In the late game, you should have tons of Nessus Mining Stations, so sea bases should have great mineral output, especially once you rush-build (you should have cash coming out of your ears by then) Genejack/Robotic Assembly/Nanofactory/Quantum Converters there (Bulk Matter Transmitter + Singularity Inductor are GREAT for getting bases up and running - is it just me, or is Bulk Matter Transmitter +50% minerals at all bases instead of the +2 it says in the Datalinks?)

Anyway, that got a little off topic (sorry!), but it WAS about terraforming - in summary, I go manual all the way!!

Z