05-12-1999 10:46									#1
	OCEAN TERRAIN? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Does anyone know if it is possible to have two different types of ocean terrain? That is, one terrain that looks and acts like ocean terrain, but another terrain that acts like ocean terrain, but does not look like it?

	05-12-1999 12:36									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

Unfortunately to the best of my knowledge the answer is essentially 'no', although you may be able to use the two special resource types (whales, fish) in order to bring about an interesting effect(s).

Likewise you can modify ocean terrain to permit mining for instance (see the Moore entry for SDC#2 - egnatia.ee.auth.gr/~markg/apolyton/hac/sdc_e_moore.zip and my own critique of this scenario sleague.apolyton.net/Reviews/ch_moore.shtml

	08-12-1999 16:54									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

You could reverse the terrain. So you have one type of land terrain and half a dozen of ocean, then rework the units and whatnot accordingly, not a perfect solution but the only way I can think of.

	08-12-1999 17:57									#4
	Support Apolyton

What exactly is the scenario about? Underwater warfare? SciFi?

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong.

	09-12-1999 06:30									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Good question Stefan-

I am revising my ALLIED FORCE ( http://civilization.gamestats.com/c.../file.pl?id=324 ) scenario and I am trying to prevent FRY units (all land-based) from leaving the country and threatening neighboring NATO cities. The best solution I've come up with thus far is to change the terrain that marks the boundary of Serbia (currently mostly river) to Ocean terrain. Although this solution achieves the desired result of containing the FRY units, it does look a little silly having a giant canal run through the Balkans. So I was hoping to achieve the effect of an ocean square, i.e. impassable to a land unit, but not have it LOOK like an ocean square. Any ideas?

	09-12-1999 08:42									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

In TOT, there are ways to have up to 4 different ocean terrains.

Shamrock...have you tried putting extremely powerful units there (or air units if the FRYs can't attack air?) That would work. Alternately, you could alter Ocean so that mining was allowed, remove all mining from other squares, and change the mining to look like land.

------------------
The problem with the rat race is that, even if you win, you're still a rat-Anonymous
The problem with the human race is that, even if you do well, you're still a human-Giant Squid
Webmaster: Audentior!

	09-12-1999 09:15									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Shamrock,

Thanks for clarifying the issue. I agree with Giant Squid's suggestion as an effective tactic.

You can use 'Domain 3' style zero-move units that appear as land as another approach; See sleague.apolyton.net/Guides/sldt_domain_3.shtml for more details. If you want tribes to be able to enter The Balkans, the Domain 3 units could belong to those tribes in question (e.g. NATO forces).

	10-12-1999 00:41									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Let me suggest you this: How about you make a new civ called "Mother nature" or something, and give it an invisible and invincible city somewhere in an unreachable spot. Then, give it mountain barrier units (allied to everyone). This way, you can border up FYROM and any other territory you don't want any actions to take place (Montenegro). It is also much better, because in any way, ships would be able to pass the ocean frontiers.

Another sollution is either Squid's or what JP did in "Anstieg": Make pollution instead. Or, make terrain-like units and place them on these ocean squares. This way, ships couldn't pass.

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong.

	25-12-1999 00:30									#9
	Put an end to popups!

Sorry for the delayed response - I've been moving the last couple of weeks.

Thanks for the help, everyone. I think that Stefan's solution would work the best for this sceanrio (creating sea units that look like terrain and place them on each ocean terrain square). For all of you who suggested creating units, I think that normally would have been a good idea. However, I see two problems in this instance. One issue is that the units must belong to NATO Forces so that Allied planes can pass into and out of Serbia. The second issue is that I've noticed that the AI units react very differently when movement is restricted by enemy units instead of impassable terrain (i.e. coastlines). Although Stefan's solution also requires units, I'm hoping that the AI will not be "threatened" by naval units that it cannot possibly attack and thus move as it normally would.

As for the pollution solution (nice alliteration, eh?), it sounds promising, Stefan, but I'm not sure that I understand it. Would I modify the pollution icon to look like terrain and then somehow give each ocean square pollution? If so, how do you give ocean squares pollution??