12-10-2001 20:34									#1
	Screenshot of the week: Histograph Put an end to popups!

http://www.civ3.com/images/screenshots/histo_1.jpg

	12-10-2001 20:37									#2
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I checked that out when I answered the trivia. It is hard to see how mush points one civ have, but I believe it is a quite good way of seeing how good you are.

	12-10-2001 20:38									#3
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Great shot! There's more information there than meets the eye!

Like, I'm wondering... there's a simultaneous pike in the graph, in between 2000BC and 1000BC... I'm wondering what occured? Did everyone suddenly discover an important tech, or where maps suddenly shared?

	12-10-2001 20:47									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin Like, I'm wondering... there's a simultaneous pike in the graph, in between 2000BC and 1000BC... I'm wondering what occured? Did everyone suddenly discover an important tech, or where maps suddenly shared?

Looks to me like the Aztecs spiked, and everyone else just got pushed to the right to make room. Then the Aztecs faltered and the Greeks expanded, so the Americans and Aztecs got pushed to the left as the Aztecs declined, the Greeks widened, and the other four Civs on the right remained somewhat constant (as the Greeks took over the space previously occupied by the Aztecs).

So in summary - this type of graph is difficult to read!!

	12-10-2001 20:48									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin Great shot! There's more information there than meets the eye! Like, I'm wondering... there's a simultaneous pike in the graph, in between 2000BC and 1000BC... I'm wondering what occured? Did everyone suddenly discover an important tech, or where maps suddenly shared?

Actually it seem to me as the player (Aztecs) made something very important and pushed away the others (as each row represent 100% of the total score.)

	12-10-2001 20:50									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Gramphos Actually it seem to me as the player (Aztecs) made something very important and pushed away the others (as each row represent 100% of the total score.)

Wish I could have put it so succinctly.

Ooh, yippee, I'm a warlord now. :|

	12-10-2001 20:51									#7
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As somebody must already know coz a thread that i posted and "someone" closed,... we waited all the week for such a bad picture.



Dan...

	12-10-2001 20:56									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Stuie Ooh, yippee, I'm a warlord now. :|

Contratulations Stuie, welcome abroad!

	12-10-2001 21:07									#9
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Bad picture?! It's a great picture!

It's nice to know things like histographs are in!

	12-10-2001 21:19									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Assur Bad picture?! It's a great picture! It's nice to know things like histographs are in!

We already knew that. We have seen a histograph before.

	12-10-2001 21:43									#11
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quote: From screenshot : Score is used to determine the winner when time runs out. Your overall score is the average of you scores on each turn

it's better than the old score system, but it is done per turn, and we all know there are a lot more turn late in the game the early in the game (though that can probably be edited).
Being bigger late in the game gets you a higher score, so Civ's with a late CSU have a greater chance of winning the game based on score.

	12-10-2001 21:46									#12
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The histograph-screen (same as demographics, i guess) has both graphical and numerical feedback, and its seems to be much more fleshed out that the SMAC-equivalent.

Good.

By the way: Anyone else curious about those dropdown-menu alternatives? Perhaps some Firaxian could post a 1-line listing of them. I guess that the Score-section changes subsequently for each Show-alternative?

	12-10-2001 21:48									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Lemmy it's better than the old score system, but it is done per turn, and we all know there are a lot more turn late in the game the early in the game (though that can probably be edited). Being bigger late in the game gets you a higher score, so Civ's with a late CSU have a greater chance of winning the game based on score.

"being bigger late in the game" does not necessarily get you a higher score. Score is calculated as an average of your relative power throughout the entire game. Thus, if you were a small isolationist civ for the first half of the game, you can't just put on a good show for the last 50 turns and expect that will make up for it.

Dan

	12-10-2001 21:49									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Ralf The histograph-screen (same as demographics, i guess) has both graphical and numerical feedback, and its seems to be much more fleshed out that the SMAC-equivalent. Good. By the way: Anyone else curious about those dropdown-menu alternatives? Perhaps some Firaxian could post a 1-line listing of them. I guess that the Score-section changes subsequently for each Show-alternative?

You can view the histo by score (an overall computed average, factoring in pretty much everything in the game), power (essentially military strength), or culture (self-explanatory).


Dan

	12-10-2001 21:49									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Gramphos We already knew that. We have seen a histograph before.

That older screenshot wasnt the in-game Histograph - it was the after-game Summary Replay. I agree though that they are very closely related.

	12-10-2001 21:56									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS "being bigger late in the game" does not necessarily get you a higher score. Score is calculated as an average of your relative power throughout the entire game. Thus, if you were a small isolationist civ for the first half of the game, you can't just put on a good show for the last 50 turns and expect that will make up for it. Dan

i wasn't exactly clear in my last post, what i meant with late in the game was from the time you enter the modern age till the end, i get the feeling that there are more turns you can play in the modern age then in any other age. So if you're powerful in the modern age, you get a better chance at winning.



and thanks for the list, i actually clicked on the arrow to try and open the drop-down menu force of habit i guess...

	12-10-2001 21:57									#17
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Any chance the Hostograph can be rotated to read from left to right as opposed to top to bottom?

In AOE & AOK it's much easier to read from left to right as opposed to here.

	12-10-2001 22:00									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS You can view the histo by score (an overall computed average, factoring in pretty much everything in the game), power (essentially military strength), or culture (self-explanatory).

Good enough for me. Come to think of it; I dont what else one could possibly want to view graphically.

Dan - while Im at it: Is it possible to save/reload Summary Replay's as standalone files? (still requiring Civ-3 installed, obviously). If NOT - thats not "the end of the world" - Im just curious if its possible, thats all.

	12-10-2001 22:06									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Ralf Good enough for me. Come to think of it; I dont what else one could possibly want to view graphically. Dan - while Im at it: Is it possible to save/reload Summary Replay's as standalone files? (still requiring Civ-3 installed, obviously). If NOT - thats not "the end of the world" - Im just curious if its possible, thats all.

Right now, that feature isn't in the game. I don't know if there are plans to make that happen or not. I have mentioned the idea to the team on a few occasions myself, so who knows.


Dan

	12-10-2001 22:48									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS "being bigger late in the game" does not necessarily get you a higher score. Score is calculated as an average of your relative power throughout the entire game. Thus, if you were a small isolationist civ for the first half of the game, you can't just put on a good show for the last 50 turns and expect that will make up for it.

Want to explain how this works? I mean the numbers or equation that is used to determine how it works.

Thanks.

	12-10-2001 22:57									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS Right now, that feature isn't in the game. I don't know if there are plans to make that happen or not. I have mentioned the idea to the team on a few occasions myself, so who knows.

Well, if not sooner - give the team yet another reminder then its time to work on that expected Civ-3 expansion-pack.

I think it would be nice to be able to download & replay other peoples replay-files, in order to compare oneself with others. Not all customers have the time/ the hardware/ the will to dabble with online MP.
Maybe also with an "After-action report" text area, that automatically displays whatever the replay-file providing player have commented in some added txt-file. A second best solution would be to make swithing back-and-forth to Windows easy and painless (I assume thats already possible in Civ-3).

	12-10-2001 23:04									#22
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quote: Want to explain how this works? I mean the numbers or equation that is used to determine how it works.

Well, in the shot at the lower right, it states "your overall score is the average of your score each turn" I assume that it adds up your scores for each turn and divides by the number of turns.

	12-10-2001 23:14									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Ralf That older screenshot wasnt the in-game Histograph - it was the after-game Summary Replay. I agree though that they are very closely related.

How about this one?

	12-10-2001 23:43									#24
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quote: "being bigger late in the game" does not necessarily get you a higher score. Score is calculated as an average of your relative power throughout the entire game. Thus, if you were a small isolationist civ for the first half of the game, you can't just put on a good show for the last 50 turns and expect that will make up for it.

Good news!!!

quote: Right now, that feature isn't in the game.

Dammit!! That would be the most important part!! The end of game replay is a nice bit of fluff, and is good to have, but it's REAL functionality is to share game histories and replays with other people. Perhaps the casual gamer won't do this, but those of us really into strategy like to get into the details of the game, and we like to analyze other peoples games, etc. With civ2, we've been having to do that manually! Hopefully, a patch or something will add that?