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sekong
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For people want to know how to implement a online world of civ type, I suggest them try artifact. It's a free game, although you can pay and get more fun to enjoy it.
It's a combination of turn-based and RTS. The time is mid-age.
The aim is to find and keeping 7 artifacts ( kind of borrow from AOE). The samugame provide game servers. Player download the client side for free. There are 10+ world(games) openning at same time. Generally one game take 2-3 days. Each player have 4+ hours a day to DIRECT your country. The game will re-start after the winner is decided. I don't want to go too much ad about it. If you want, you can find more info from:
http://www.samugames.com/
The down part is that you can't do research. Almost everything (units, buildings) are available at the beginning. Therefore it lacks the depth of strategy, and the fun as CIV. I'm dreamming something combine the civ's depth into this on-line world model. If Firaxis won't do it, I hope somebody will do it, or it's being worked on already.
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sekong
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quote:
Originally posted by Blake
Online worlds is a pretty cool idea. Just supposing for a moment that it happens, how should it be implmented? Prehaps a really big map of the world with about 50 civs, which are controlled by Humans, or AI's (upon joining a human could choose any AI civ,
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As I borrow the idea from artifact:
There is just one big map. When I new player join the game, he find his settler and other initial unit at a undiscover land. Then you build yr city, etc.
quote:
except for recentely vacated ones, which could only be claimed by there most recent human leader, at least for a number of hours)
The tech rate would have to be slow, and the turns would have to be simulatenous and timed.
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The producing and research, taxing are turn based. say each 2 minite, or 10 minite, which could be a factor of the game. But the combat and exploration are real timed. And you can give units orders like goto, patrol(?). Then they will do it by their own. Most computation are done by the game server.
quote:
Once a game is 'won' it would be restarted in the stoneage.
It would be a massive undertaking to make and perfect. |
As I said previously, restart is not a problem.
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Oligarf
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I think that simulatenous turns are the best. I don't think everyone playing on such a huge world could be online all at once. There could be different worlds depending on how frequent turns are executed.
I personally quite like the idea.
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LoD
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Warsaw, Poland
Jan 2000
time: 06:15
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We'll, having 50 some opponents in the game might be interesting and fun, but let's think about it - can the Online World concept be implemented effectively in civ-type games? Simply consider the fact that players don't spend their entire life seating at the computer (well, there are exceptions, but count those as clinial cases  ), so eventually a player will have to log off from the game. Let's analize the possible solutions to the problem:
- '50 player PBEM' -
 . Nuff' said.
- stopping the game - would never do, obviously
- complex subbing system - not viable, since it would require an immense synchronization effort.
- generating the turns as if the player had skipped the turn with no orders - the player would probably find his empire partitioned after he rejoins the game.
- temporory appointing the AI as the leader of the civ - as above.
- temporary dissapearance of a civ from the game - would cause great confusion and rule complication. Possible abuse.
- temporary invincibility of all civ's units, structure's etc. - at first, sounds like good idea, but will provide much confusion. Also could be easily abused.
I may had missed out a cure for the problem, so please correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think that civ games are too complex and have a too fragile balance of power (for 50+ players) to be Online World games. 16 civs are quite enough for an MP game.
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sekong
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Obviously, you did not have a look of samugames.com, the host of artifact yet. There IS a cure for all your list of "problems".
quote:
Originally posted by LoD
We'll, having 50 some opponents in the game might be interesting and fun, but let's think about it - can the Online World concept be implemented effectively in civ-type games? Simply consider the fact that players don't spend their entire life seating at the computer (well, there are exceptions, but count those as clinial cases ), so eventually a player will have to log off from the game. Let's analize the possible solutions to the problem:
- '50 player PBEM' - . Nuff' said.
- stopping the game - would never do, obviously
- complex subbing system - not viable, since it would require an immense synchronization effort.
- generating the turns as if the player had skipped the turn with no orders - the player would probably find his empire partitioned after he rejoins the game.
- temporory appointing the AI as the leader of the civ - as above.
- temporary dissapearance of a civ from the game - would cause great confusion and rule complication. Possible abuse.
- temporary invincibility of all civ's units, structure's etc. - at first, sounds like good idea, but will provide much confusion. Also could be easily abused.
I may had missed out a cure for the problem, so please correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think that civ games are too complex and have a too fragile balance of power (for 50+ players) to be Online World games. 16 civs are quite enough for an MP game. |
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sekong
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
Hmmm... Online worlds sounds expensive. Like $10/month, the same as Ultima Online. |
AS the case of Artifact, you can play free as nominad, or $25 one time for basic member.
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sekong
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1st, my thanks to Thebirdman for trying out and confirming what I said. You are right, it could be addictive as well. 
For LoD: here is a link of helps:
http://www.samugames.com/artifact/help/
a basic summary:
http://www.samugames.com/artifact/
Yes, it's RTS. But later I found there are turns as wells. But turns here does not mean players take turns to make their order, units take turns to attack, etc, which I think is downside for a on-line game. Instead, turns here means some important production, improvements get updated for every 5/10 minutes a turn.
How do they make it? It's a more difficult question to answer, but easier to experience.
Short answer:
1) massive orders
2) Good pathfinding algorithm
3) simplified science discovery/ tech improvement
4) fairplaying
5) alliance/clan system.
Long answers:
Although sid said he get the inspiration of civ from simcity. But actually, artifact is closer to simcity than civ does. Like in simcity (or similar games like Caeser III), you lay out the city constructures(?), give massive orders to outline the cities, and units. Then city will begin to grow and improve. The units will walk the distance to explore the world, find the enemy or important targets. When they doing these, you don't have to be online all the time. Important events will be registered on a log report. You just come back in time to check the results and make new orders. Or at some point, directly command the critical battles.
When we look at civ playing, we spend a lot of time to finger ordering units. Which should not very nessary if there is a good pathfinding algorithm 
Another big part of civ is anxiously waiting for the shields/food to fill the que. In artifact, you can just give out the order and then come back when it's done. I think in civ3, with the city production order list, we can do similar things. (massive orders)
The 3 rd big part of civ-playing is climbing the science-tree. Artifact simply omit it. That's the part as a civer I don't like about. And need to be improved. And there are solutions obviously, if you know about SMAC.
A lot of civver, espacially deity players have the habit of micromanagement. If civ implement as an on-line-world game, I don't think you can do that, and you don't have to. Because every one are all the same: fairplaying.
In Artifact, If you have alliance with other players, they can watch out for you when you are not on-line. Actually, their most important role is to make sure when someone attacking you, there is a human player helping you with defending the civ. This is how they make it in artifact. I don't know if an on-line-world civ should do that. But obviously a good thing to consider...
Sorry for my English, I hope it could be understood.
Last edited by sekong on 16-10-2001 at 00:21
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Akillias
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lol i cant imagine 879 players waiting in line to play
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sekong
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Yes, because it's not what happened.
quote:
Originally posted by Akillias
lol i cant imagine 879 players waiting in line to play |
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dainbramaged13
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Dumbass
Mar 2000
time: 00:15
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i did not like the game, and it would definetly not work with civ. THe system is that all the units and buildings follow your last orders until they are done, or until u get back. This would not work in civ3, sincs u usually give orders per turn, or, once every two turns. It woudln't work.
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14-10-2001 06:25
I will be very curious to see if that's it!!!!!! Lucky shlumps.
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