14-10-2001 09:27									#1
	A Thread To End Threads... Get a bigger avatar today!

For all of you optimists, realists, or whatever you want to be called you need to respect all posters, even pessimists. If a pessimist wants to bash Firaxis or Civ3 that is his/her choice. All people's opinions need to be taken into consideration. Yes, I am saying that a pessimist's feelings are just as valuable as an optimist's/realist's feelings. Also, you need to stop bashing Yin for his opinions. I think I might be one of the only people who actually understand Yin. Overall, just stop all this optimist unite crap, pessimists WILL like Civ3, and whatever else you complain about towards the pessimists.

All of this does apply to the pessimists too, but it seems as if they are much more level-headed people sometimes.

	14-10-2001 09:36									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well I do agree that everyone (pessimists, optimists, and all those in between) are being a little crazy right now, there is something else to take into consideration. Some people are belligerent and try to force their opinions on others. They also do not back them up with fact and when confronted by facts make insults. That, I have a problem with.

	14-10-2001 09:49									#3
	Re: A Thread To End Threads... Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by TechWins For all of you optimists, realists, or whatever you want to be called you need to respect all posters, even pessimists.

Respect is meted where it is due.

quote: If a pessimist wants to bash Firaxis or Civ3 that is his/her choice. All people's opinions need to be taken into consideration.

This is true. But responses to bashings are also people's choice.

quote: Yes, I am saying that a pessimist's feelings are just as valuable as an optimist's/realist's feelings. Also, you need to stop bashing Yin for his opinions.

I never had a problem with Yin, until his snide little footnotes in his posts that were directed towards people's characters started showing up.

quote: I think I might be one of the only people who actually understand Yin.

You are starting to sound like Yin.

quote: Overall, just stop all this optimist unite crap, pessimists WILL like Civ3, and whatever else you complain about towards the pessimists.

Stop the pessimism, and we will stop the optimism.

quote: All of this does apply to the pessimists too, but it seems as if they are much more level-headed people sometimes.

Only seems.

	14-10-2001 10:15									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well, I have just posted my final comment about the SID IS GOD thread. Enough of it.

As for the rest, time will tell. I expect a few weeks of euphoria as the 'shiny box' drug clouds people's objectivity. Once the dust settles, we'll see exactly how things turned out.

Until then, the flood of new people here will rise...and they know nothing about the past 2 years of the efforts made on this forum. Fair enough. I and others know enough...

	14-10-2001 10:19									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Yin 26's posts are always too long, so i never read them (except the argument between him and Mark G), but by the sounds of things, he is probably the biggest pessimist of them all. That is probably good because when the game is released and it is better, the pessimists would then be optimistic about the game. Or if it is worse than the pessimists say, the optimists will be pessimists. Or if the game ends up being OK, the optimists will be a little bit pessimistic while the pessimists will be a little bit optimistic, so in the end, everyone probably will enjoy the game as much as the next person. The realists could go ahead and make scenarios so they get happy too, and everyone will agree on how good the game is.

I have no idea what I just said.

And for crying out loud! It's just a game in the end! No more, no less! Let people have their own opinions!

	14-10-2001 10:20									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by yin26 Well, I have just posted my final comment about the SID IS GOD thread. Enough of it. As for the rest, time will tell. I expect a few weeks of euphoria as the 'shiny box' drug clouds people's objectivity. Once the dust settles, we'll see exactly how things turned out. Until then, the flood of new people here will rise...and they know nothing about the past 2 years of the efforts made on this forum. Fair enough. I and others know enough...

Does this mean you're gone for good? Never to visit the Apolyton forums again, never to play the greatest game of all time again? After ten years... one (bad) mistake and you lose complete faith...

	14-10-2001 10:21									#7
	Suffering from ads?

Wow, Yin posted whilst I was reading. By the sounds of his comment, he's not letting other peoples opinions draw him on to make one, so whyd's everyone bagging him?

	14-10-2001 10:30									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Respect is meted where it is due.

If a person states their opinion, regardless of what that may be, in an appropiate fashion then respect should be given to them.

quote: This is true. But responses to bashings are also people's choice.

Yes, but the the responses given to these bashing posts are very unrespectful. Hypothetical example: "I'm not going to buy the game if MP isn't included" Response to that post "MP sucks anyways so you have no reason not to buy Civ3; you will love Civ3 when you play it".

quote: I never had a problem with Yin, until his snide little footnotes in his posts that were directed towards people's characters started showing up.

I'm not sure what you footnotes you are referring to? That's good you don't have a problem because there isn't much of a reason to.

quote: You are starting to sound like Yin.

When does Yin say "I'm the only one who understands myself"? I'm not trying to suck up to Yin, either, because I have no reason to nor do I want to. I'm just stating the way things really are.

quote: Stop the pessimism, and we will stop the optimism.

Maybe I should have put quotes around "optimist unit" and "pessimists WILL like Civ3" to get my point through better. Unless I misinterpreting your post, which I think I just may have done. Now that I see what you meant: nobody has to stop the pessimism or optimism, respect needs to be given to everybody on what their feelings are on a topic.

By the way, to give some of you a surprising statement after my comments made on this thread, I'm an optimist.

	14-10-2001 10:31									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: All of this does apply to the pessimists too, but it seems as if they are much more level-headed people sometimes.

ROTFLOL!

Like said above, stop the ridiculous pessimism and Chicken Little routine, and we won't need to overcompensate.

	14-10-2001 10:45									#10
	Support Apolyton

I have ranted against the pessmists. It was in reaction to my reduced enjoyment I got from reading all that negativity. It was becoming like "I'm not enjoying Apolyton nearly as much with all the non-news and ranting going on" at the time.

The negativity seems to have abated considerably. Or have I just learned to avoid those threads?

My belief is that with a little extra effort, everyone can say most anything in a positive manner, without 'angering'.

Hey, just wait until we are playing the game! All sorts of people are going to be disappointed because they get impatient trying to get a handle on the game, trying for a 'conquering the world' victory before their civ is ready.

	14-10-2001 11:04									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I agree that everyone has the right to express their opinion. However, there are those who seem on a mission to trash the game at every opportunity. It's really getting tiring. Its like a broken record.
I keep wondering is there anything they like about Civ3? Anything?
Hey I like a good honest rant as much as the next person BUT over and over again by the same people........????
You can't even avoid it by not clicking on an innocent looking post because these people are posting this trash everywhere.

	14-10-2001 12:51									#12
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

"Why can't we all just get along?" - Mars Attacks

I am sure all will be well when Civ3 is here. And think about Civ3's feelings, eh? Dissing it for not being the perfect game, how do you think it feels? Let us accept it as it is and see it for what it has and not for what it lacks. We can all be angry for its lack of capability of printing 432 dollar bills or produce instant sexual gratification! Well, maybe for some people they can get instant sexual gratification from CIV3, but let us not go there

Vincentz

	14-10-2001 13:03									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

You can enjoy your freedom of speech.. .and you are entitled to your personal opinion... as long as you can show proof that whatever it is you are saying is coming through your brain instead of your digestive tract....

	14-10-2001 16:16									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Just one thought:

When Civ3 is released, it will be no optimists, and no pessimists. We'll all be realists, because we will all KNOW the truth!!!

Am I right?

	14-10-2001 16:58									#15
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Yin's not pessimistic, he's just cautiously optimistic.

	14-10-2001 17:36									#16
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Executor Yin's not pessimistic, he's just cautiously optimistic.

So was the iron curtain........

	14-10-2001 20:39									#17
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by yin26 Well, I have just posted my final comment about the SID IS GOD thread. Enough of it. As for the rest, time will tell. I expect a few weeks of euphoria as the 'shiny box' drug clouds people's objectivity. Once the dust settles, we'll see exactly how things turned out. Until then, the flood of new people here will rise...and they know nothing about the past 2 years of the efforts made on this forum. Fair enough. I and others know enough...

	14-10-2001 20:40									#18
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Faboba So was the iron curtain........

i'd like to see you explain that one for me.

please note that not in any sarcastic/condensending tone, i just honestly want to know why you think the iron curtain was cautiously optimistic.

	14-10-2001 20:46									#19
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

In the same kind of 'waving large object just in case in the hopes of never using it' kind of sense as much of the pessimism on this board.

Most people are going to buy the game but still saying how dreadful it will be because of X

( where X is = to a tiny little detail like lack of multiplayer, limited number of enemy civs, removal of wonder movies, inability to move stacked units .... etc )

This is 'cautiously optimistic'

You'd like to hope for the best but have prepared for the worst.

The USSR wanted to hope for the best in that the rest of the world would decide how great communism was and none of their own citizens would defect with military secrets. But just in case they closed and reinforced their borders. Cautious optimism of the same breed I feel........

	14-10-2001 21:32									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I think that the optimism and the pessimism shown here are perfectly suited for these anticipating moments. We don't know what we may find when Civ3 is finally released and properly installed on our HDs.

Some people like to be pessimist about the game, so they can cope with two possible scenarios: 1) the game is horrible and then they would not feel so bad about it ("I knew it would be bad"); 2) the game is wonderful and they can feel instant gratification ("Wow, they really have excelled themselves this time!").

As for me, I don't think that lack of multiplayer is a "tiny little detail", though I personally don't play MP. Most games nowadays include MP support, and a game so anticipated as Civ3 should not ignore this trend. But if MP is included on a patch or on a expansion pack, fine (I won't bother too much, anyway).

But take the stacked units issue, for instance. For me, it is a very important part of the game, and one of those few points that CtP really managed to innovate. For me (and I want to stress this "me" position), stacked units working like armies, with the ability to be moved together as an army, IS a concept that really adds to the gameplay. So, is it disappointing that Civ3 does not include that option? For me, yes. Not for others.

All in all, I think Civ3 will have a lot of interesting features, which might or not compensate the lack of some other features from former games. We will have to wait and see.

	14-10-2001 21:36									#21
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

the reason why I dont like yins pessimism is that he wont allow for ANYTHING good to posibly happen on these forums, if you try to make a thread saying "this game is so COOL!" or somthing, you get bashed for being TO HAPPY! Why? Its not totally yins fault but if he had never been here there would have never been the whole optimists vs pessimists thing. The main reason is that somewhere allong the lines, everyone happy stoped posting, why I dont know, then the board was full of people who look at the game as if its a life vs death type thing. people have long forgotten that whether the game is god or crap, tommorow is still gona happen. If you want to be a blind optimist, you should, in the end its just a game. And whats wrong with being happy? christ people, you only live once...

just my $0.02

	14-10-2001 21:39									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by splangy the reason why I dont like yins pessimism is that he wont allow for ANYTHING good to posibly happen on these forums, if you try to make a thread saying "this game is so COOL!" or somthing, you get bashed for being TO HAPPY! Why? Its not totally yins fault but if he had never been here there would have never been the whole optimists vs pessimists thing. The main reason is that somewhere allong the lines, everyone happy stoped posting, why I dont know, then the board was full of people who look at the game as if its a life vs death type thing. people have long forgotten that whether the game is god or crap, tommorow is still gona happen. If you want to be a blind optimist, you should, in the end its just a game. And whats wrong with being happy? christ people, you only live once... just my $0.02

Thank you, yes, put simply



is better than