14-10-2001 19:33									#1
	Elizabeth...... what has become of thee.... Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Could I just say first that this is the first hint of pessemism to cross my lips yet so I feel I'm entitled.

I was dismayed to see picture of the modern elizabeth ( see attahed ) appearing as some strange 'artiste' type Berret-et-all and could I just voice my protest that she could not be dressed as a sensible modern leader, in a suit ( like a certain female prime minister used to...... ) like the American leader.

In fact while the American leader ( Lincon ) appears to be sensibly appearing in all pictures, the other leaders all seem to be a lot more caricature-like, comic versions of themselves.

I would just like to make a quiet protest against this subconscious racism which, though not intentional, seems evident to me. They [ Americans ] would not dare poke fun at their own institutions ( such as Lincon or even Ghandi, who also is shown respect ) whereas they're perfectly willing to have some fun at the expense of others ( The English, the Persians, probably many of the others which I haven't seen..... )

So can I just say on this particular issue Firaxis ( though for everything else I've seen so far )

Last edited by Faboba on 14-10-2001 at 19:38

	14-10-2001 19:35									#2
	Re: Elizabeth...... what has become of thee.... Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Faboba ( see attahed )

Me see nothing. Me blind?

	14-10-2001 19:40									#3
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Ghandi will be getting violent, and have you seen the animation of Lincoln grinning on the video (looks damn stupid). I don't know if Elizabeth changes costume, but she depicted in the same way that she always has been. No I would not like to see her portrayed as a Maggie character.

But man, get a grip on the racist talk.

There is nothing discriminatory about sticking to the stereotypical image of a well-known national leader. The use of Lincoln as the American leader is far more dubious, given that it was his election that sparked off the Civil War over there, than the use of England's greatest monarch.

David

	14-10-2001 21:01									#4
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Ya... it does sound a little strange to be complaining about how Elizabeth is dressed.

	14-10-2001 21:17									#5
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You wouldn't be saying that if she was dressed sensibly..... because I'd never have made the thread, It'd never have been moved the the civilizations folder and you'd never have read it and consequently replied.

	14-10-2001 22:54									#6
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Lincoln (the historical figure) always dressed conservatively. Elizabeth was quite a bit flashier, wouldn't you say? I think they have attempted to reflect what the various leaders' clothing choices would be had they lived in the different eras.

Then again, Cleopatra in the bonnet is quite a hoot - I think she would have worn something more.... revealing.

	14-10-2001 23:08									#7
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the glasses are silly but everything else on elizabeth is ok

	14-10-2001 23:37									#8
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quote: Originally posted by d_dudy the glasses are silly but everything else on elizabeth is ok

I personally like Elizabeth. The Cleo bonnet thing though is kind of scary. I do agree though that many of the leaders look cartoo... perhaps on purpose? They could have made an effort to make the leaders look as if you could take them seriously...

	15-10-2001 01:09									#9
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I think she looks better in the modern ewra than the other eras

	15-10-2001 01:26									#10
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quote: You wouldn't be saying that if she was dressed sensibly.....

I see nothing wrong with her dress. What is the problem .

Another pointless whine?

	15-10-2001 01:52									#11
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I don't see anything wrong with the way they dressed Lizy. Although I still wish they'd replace her with Victoria and rename the civ Great Britain instead of England. I chalk it up to Fraxis's ignorance of history.

	15-10-2001 03:11									#12
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Is she wearing shoulder pads?

	15-10-2001 03:37									#13
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Modern Liz has been my favorite thus far! I don't understand their thinking on the bonnet for Cleo, but it is pretty amusing I suppose.

	15-10-2001 03:43									#14
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Often, when we see someone clothed in the fashion of another period, they do seem strange! It's just that we are not used to it. Also, "fashion" is very subjective -- especially THESE days.

What is in good taste to one might not be in good taste to another....

	15-10-2001 09:51									#15
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the glasses are silly but everything else on elizabeth is ok

I agree. Though the characters all look a little bit funny.

Another pointless whine?

Could be...

	15-10-2001 10:05									#16
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*Sigh* Another poke at Firaxis for being racist.

"CSAs are racist! Your choice of leaders is racist! UUs are racist! Having different colors to distinguish the different civs is racist!"

Wake up and realize the world isn't homogeneous. We are a diverse species. Celebrate it.

	16-10-2001 19:29									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I don't see anything wrong with the way they dressed Lizy. Although I still wish they'd replace her with Victoria and rename the civ Great Britain instead of England. I chalk it up to Fraxis's ignorance of history.

Dear GOD ALMIGHTY!

The one thing that WOULD make me boycott the game is if they did that.

Ewwwwwwww

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no NO NO NO NO

Just............

Just no.

You're not Scottish, You'll never understand. That's like saying they should call the Americans the North Americans and include Canadian cities.

No, believe me. It is.

	17-10-2001 00:54									#18
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quote: You're not Scottish, You'll never understand

Oerdin is Scottish, to what extent I don't know, but he has professed his Scotchness in another thread.

And why does Liz look so anaemic, surely she would sport a bit more of a tan in the modern era.