15-10-2001 18:52									#1
	Resources: I spy with my little eye... Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

this is another resource thread but its a new question I haven't found answers for on any other. I think it was hinted at though...

I can't really explain my questions without giving an example:
I'm playing as the Russians and I trade something for a copy of Germany's maps. On the next turn, I discover gunpowder but there are no saltpetre resources in my territory.

Question 1: since I got a copy of the German map before i discovered gunpowder, will my map of their territory be updated so I can see saltpetre resources in their territory or will i need to get a new copy of their map?

Question 2: Will I only be able to see saltpetre resources inside their territory if they also have knowledge of gunpowder?

I assume that any land that you have inside your borders will automatically update itself, but I'm wondering if you will have to re-explore uncontrolled land to find new resources. Also, having to trade maps with another civ more than once a game will add to diplomacy. if you refuse to trade someone a new copy of your map after they discover nuclear physics would prevent them from seeing your large uranium deposits.
kind of like an "iron curtain" effect.

anyways, that's it. anyone have any answers? ideas? inside info? I might have to wait until the 22nd for any real info but that's okay. what do you think?

	15-10-2001 18:58									#2
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I like this. You should be able to scout your terrain in a turn, and maybe even no-man's land, but unless other civs let you prospect their land, you're not going to find anything in their territory. As for whether it's in or not - who can say? My gut reaction would be that, unfortunately, all visible (and for that matter invisible until discovered) terrain would be "resourced" instantly.

	15-10-2001 18:58									#3
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I would go with:
1) re-explore any terrain to find recently detectable resources
( I mean, for centuries nobody suspected there was oil down the North Sea or uranium in Siberia)
2) if you trade maps, you get what THEY detected... you know what this means.
At least, these are my guesses.

	15-10-2001 19:07									#4
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I'd be willing to bet that the fog of war would prohibit you from seeing their resources.

	15-10-2001 19:14									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin I'd be willing to bet that the fog of war would prohibit you from seeing their resources.

I expect FoW to hide any NEW resource that I might detect now but I couldn't when I visited those lands. And if I trade maps, I will see what they see, so if they cannot sea the resources, neither will I even if I could if I did it myself.

	15-10-2001 19:48									#6
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I think when you trade maps, the area of a map that they know about will be added to yours, and that will be the end of it. It doesn't mean that they will continually share their map with you as time goes on. The map information that you get from them is a one-time deal, meaning that you get what they know at that point, but after that you're on your own.

If you discover a new technology that allows you to see a new resource AFTER you exchange maps, you won't see what's on their side. You'd have to be careful when to exchange maps... keeping an eye on your technological advancement. If you know that you're about to obtain a new tech, you should probably wait for that map exchange.

	15-10-2001 20:33									#7
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I disagree with your logic, thats not the way it's worked in the other games.

In CTP for example, when you developed the ability to see underwater, all your map got updated because resources were a terrain feature rather than an additional thing.

It would be much to complicated to deside on showing certain resources certain places depending on the fog of war, much more likely is that they will just show the resource whenever the player discovers it ( see the computer doesn't need to see the resource, it knows where it is and only has to wait for the technology to see it. The visuals are for the players benifit )

It will be much more straightforward ( ergo more likely what they're gonna do ) if when you discover a tech giving a resource, if you can see every occurence of that resource on the explored map.

	15-10-2001 20:39									#8
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I see your point Faboba. You're probably right.

	15-10-2001 21:33									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Faboba It would be much to complicated to deside on showing certain resources certain places depending on the fog of war

It's not that complicated.

Since the game keeps track of borders anyway, it's just a bit of additional code to take that into account when updating maps.

	16-10-2001 00:34									#10
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I'd think that all sources of the newly discovered resource would show up on the map. So if your neighbor has it, you can hunt around to find it.
Unfortunately, unless they have the same technology as you, they won't know it's there and they probably won't be able to export it. You'd have to conquer them or give them the knowledge they need, and then arrage a strategic resource trade.
Good reason to go to war, huh?