16-10-2001 04:16									#31
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by BLackraven42 I've always wondered why the makers of CTP didn't get Sid to help out with the making of the game. Just having his name on the box would sell millions of copies.

Could be something to do with him working for a rival company.

Infact they couldn't even keep hold of the Civilization title for CTP2. But Sid would never have signed off on anything as rubbish as Activision's product. So let's hope his involvement will make Civ 3 the greatest game ever made.

David

Ps, waiting for it to arrive is ruining my life.

	16-10-2001 04:19									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I see. But still, the border concept was 1st introduce in SMAC. It's a fix to CIV1 and CIV2, where there is no border concept at all. Whether the border conpept will be perfected, we will have to see. But at least improved, I hope.

quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns Why? And I think CIV3 implement the border concept from SMAC..

In SMAC, one faction could have their capital sitting there for a hundred years with its border protecting the squares it is harvesting. But another faction could plonk a base down right next to the capital's border, and suddenly the very ancient capital has half the border size as before, and the new base is harvesting squares that the capital used to be using. And all this occurs during one turn.

In Civ 3, a nation could have their capital sitting there for a hundred years, with its border (eventually) protecting the squares it is harvesting. Then, when another nation plonks down a city right next to the capitals border, the capitals border still protects the squares it is harvesting. The new city has no border. Also, the new city will eventually be absorbed by the capitals superior culture. [/QUOTE]

	16-10-2001 04:36									#33
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

SMAC was their first attempt at borders, Civ 3 is where they have (hopefully) perfected the idea

	16-10-2001 06:57									#34
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Play my CTP2 Cradle Mod on Impossible/Raging Hordes using the Deity Slayer Option (make sure to use the most current update too)

Set userprofile.txt to
Number of Players 13
MaxPlayers 16

Pollution On

and then tell me that the CTP2 AI sucks...

You've got two weeks before civ3 is released anyhow.

If you hated the CTP setup (interface/PW) don't bother...if you want a challenge, what have you got to lose???

Hey, I'll be giving civ3 a chance!!! - and yes, I think it will be a good game too.

	16-10-2001 08:22									#35
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Locutus Nothing, CtP will be better...

Locutus- CtP's 'one man Masada'.

	16-10-2001 08:26									#36
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Stand thou not in the light of CivIII O foolish CTP- for though art but a shadow of her glory, and shall vanish at her coming!

Ancient prophecy from The Book of Ages of CIV.

	16-10-2001 10:11									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

What will make civ3 better? Don't know, haven't played it. The only thing CTP2 really suffers from is too much buggy hardcoding. Alot of the mods were really good though. We'll just have to see on civ3.

	16-10-2001 13:22									#38
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Don't foget that CtP had THE WORST, ABOSULUTLY THE WORST world map ever. And I'm talking about 2nd game, the 1st one didn't have it at all.

	16-10-2001 13:25									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Don't foget that CtP had THE WORST, ABOSULUTLY THE WORST world map ever. And I'm talking about 2nd game, the 1st one didn't have it at all.

Then a guy called OmniGod made the best ever world map. But he made it for CTP2.

	16-10-2001 13:50									#40
	CTP - a great shame! Remove this text

I believe that Activision were just jumping onto the Civilisation Bandwagon and trying to cash-in on the brand that Sid et al. created and maintained. ...it is the sincerest form of flattery

IMO CTP and CTP 2 were not the same game as CIV 2 - added to that both games were poorly implemented. If you were expecting a CIV III from CTP you would have been extremely disappointed (as many of you were). I suppose if I had never played Civ 1 or Civ 2 I may have enjoyed CTP.

So it was buggy and it wasn't Civ III - that doesn't stop people from liking it! good for them.

(personally I thought it sucked)

	16-10-2001 14:20									#41
	Re: what will make civ 3 better than ctp Inflate your Upload Space

What will not?


Fred

	16-10-2001 15:03									#42
	Get a bigger avatar today!

the idea of borders is great,
in fact there should be negotiation possible about the borders !

While talking with your neighbours, there should be an option to redefine borders. The longer a border exists, the harder it will be to move it. If a border has been there for 1000 years, and you try to move it, the world population might get angry at you.

In civ4 there should be city borders (by culture) and nation borders (by negotiation)

that would be great !
Where's the civ4 list ? Yin ???

CS

	16-10-2001 15:45									#43
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian Play my CTP2 Cradle Mod on Impossible/Raging Hordes using the Deity Slayer Option (make sure to use the most current update too) Set userprofile.txt to Number of Players 13 MaxPlayers 16 Pollution On and then tell me that the CTP2 AI sucks...

You should hear yourself speak. There are just too many adjustments one has to make to make ctp2 fun....

I like to buy a game, put the CD in the drive and start playing. Maybe reading the manual, but having to download mods and patches just to make the game fun pisses me off....

Ctp2 was promising but in the end needed more time before being released. I still think that the stacked units thing (armies) was a good invention. It is a petty that civ3 will not have that (the leader unit that can make an army just isn't the same). But civ3 will have so much more than ctp2!

But I take your challenge. I will download your mod and play ctp2 the way you suggested and try if I like it that way better. I will smash that ctp2 AI!

	16-10-2001 16:34									#44
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I never played a whole game of CTP. In fact, I don't think I even gave it fifty turns. The interface was so impossible and frustrating that the game was more work than fun.

By contrast, I played Civ I for years until CivII came out. Then I played that until... well I still play it! The difference between the Civs and CTP is like night and day. I was curious when CTP II came out, but I read mixed reviews, and so didn't bother with it.
A good decision based on what you are all (mostly) saying.

	16-10-2001 18:50									#45
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by campmajor! I like to buy a game, put the CD in the drive and start playing. Maybe reading the manual, but having to download mods and patches just to make the game fun pisses me off....

I pray that your optimism will prove justified but it will be the first game I've bought in a year that required no patch if this is true.

CtP2 was better than some in that the basic SP game was playable on release. Leaving aside multiplayer which they did at least fix, the major failing was an AI that could not stand up to the hardcore player. Friends of mine who like an idle game of Civ but often lose (at prince level !) thoroughly enjoy CtP2 for its glossy graphics, nice tunes and unpressured playing style.

	16-10-2001 21:51									#46
	Got spare money?

I really haven't enjoyed SMAC that much - dunno why. It is just that it doesn't (for me) provide for that "one more turn" feeling I am still getting from Civ2...

...not to mention that CtP2 is one of the most unimaginative, boring and generally stupid games I have ever played. It is BAD and CRAPPY to the core! Thank goodness I played the copy a friend of mine was so unfortunate to buy and didn't spend my good money on it

	16-10-2001 22:00									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Well I have played civ, civ2, SMAC and I thought CtP would be an interesting look. I never got to play CtP(1) because I was too engrossed with SMAC at the time but I thought I would give CtP2 a go. It sucked, it just didn't have that magic element that civ games had, you couldn't immerse yourself in it and the mathematics were too awkward and complex. It didn't work, it felt like a chore. I played two games but I didn't have the patience for any more.

Basically, civ3 will rip the head of CtP and sh*t down it's neck!

	16-10-2001 22:02									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Rosacrux I really haven't enjoyed SMAC that much - dunno why. It is just that it doesn't (for me) provide for that "one more turn" feeling I am still getting from Civ2...

You're right. I too never developed that "one more turn" syndrome that I have while playing Civ and Civ2. I think maybe it was because SMAC was just TOO alien for me to develop any strong personal attachment to my civilization.

	16-10-2001 23:22									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: I too never developed that "one more turn" syndrome that I have while playing Civ and Civ2. I think maybe it was because SMAC was just TOO alien for me to develop any strong personal attachment to my civilization.

Well, SMAC is one of my favorites of all time, and I really felt that "one more turn" syndrome - I still do! The fact that it was alien did not bother me, mainly because I like sci-fi. Also, I think that SMAC is one of the most immersive games I´ve ever played, with the faction leaders and their unique personalities... this feature really added to the gameplay, IMO, so it´s no surprise to me that Firaxis has decided to include it in Civ3 (albeit slightly different).

Anyway, I think it is a matter of taste... some people like sci-fi, others don´t. I do.

	16-10-2001 23:29									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

There are more new concepts in civ3. When the gameplay is ok, civ3 will rule.

	17-10-2001 02:48									#51
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian Play my CTP2 Cradle Mod on Impossible/Raging Hordes using the Deity Slayer Option (make sure to use the most current update too)

Nah sorry. I brought CTP2 back out from exile a couple of months ago after an Apolytoneer suggested I try it using the new Mods that were out. I still found it boring. I played on the second hardest level and I crushed the computer. I was so far ahead by 1400 that I just quit. The diplomacy was even worse. All they did was trade maps. When I tried to trade tech they got mine but I got jacksquat!
I'm glad you like it. But I've given the game 2 chances and it still, IMHO, sucks and will never interest me. I am taking in my copy of CTP2 to a used game store in the next week or so and hopefully they'll give me a 10 buck store credit for it!
I am keeping CTP1 though because I think it was more challenging.

	17-10-2001 02:52									#52
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Falconius I never played a whole game of CTP.

Neither have I. It always lost my interest.

quote: By contrast, I played Civ I for years until CivII came out. Then I played that until... well I still play it!

Same here! I mean if people are still playing a game from 4-5 years ago in an age of spectacular 3D graphics it definitely says something about that game!!

	17-10-2001 03:13									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I still play Civ2 and CTP+mods.
Aside from some sense of idiotic brand loyalty, why do people around here act as though the choice is exclusive?

	17-10-2001 04:11									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by The Templar Aside from some sense of idiotic brand loyalty, why do people around here act as though the choice is exclusive?

I think the answer to this is so obvious, that it alludes you because of... well.. why does it allude you?


Is it maybe because people actually STILL like these games?

	17-10-2001 06:20									#55
	Increase Your PM Length

Ctp2 is like an add on to Ctp i think the only thing they changed was the trade system

	17-10-2001 13:58									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

any game not made by craptivision has to be better than CTP. Never was such a dull civ game made...ever!

	17-10-2001 14:03									#57
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Hopefully an AI than will fight back, rather than just roll over and die in CTP2, I stopped playing that game after two weeks, I could not get the AI to even try and beat me, so I gave up and went back to CIV 2

	17-10-2001 15:16									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat A SCRIPTING ****ING LANGUAGE DAMMIT would be a good start.

LOL! have you seen the editor pic, its gon be SOO easy to edit, we wont have to go thrue six hours of testing to play

quote: CtP was not too bad after a bit of modding (which granted, shouldn't be neccessary, but the fact that I could do it was a major bonus).

Read above, and civ3 dosent look like it will need mods (definetly not as many as badly as ctp2

quote: The CtP trade did have caravans, but not ridiculous push-around-the-map ones.

Civ3 dosent have push around the map ones, and Alot of people liked the push around one

quote: UUs were added, (with terrain dependancy thankyou very much).

Thats funny, I never saw that and im sure if terrain dependency is real that the game crashes on turn 20 like always with a cool feature

quote: Getting rid of legions of workers.

Ohh ya it sure is realistic to tell your people to not do anything for 1000 years then build a entire infastructure in one turn

quote: Diplomacy may be improved from CtP2, I've not seen too much of it yet.

Well, as long as the computer dosent take my outpost for its best city it will be infinitly better

quote: Aiin, you can have 8+ civs in CtP

16 in civ3, and thats about the limit in ctp2 to becouse of lag

quote: And, most of all, a decent ai, but even with that, if its modding capabilities aren't as good, then it won't be al-round amazing.

Are you talking about civ3 or ctp, Ctps AI was sh!t, I could make a better one with my eyes closed...

	17-10-2001 15:38									#59
	Tired of ads?

quote: But I take your challenge. I will download your mod and play ctp2 the way you suggested and try if I like it that way better. I will smash that ctp2 AI!

Well, I downloaded the Apolyton Pack 1.00, the update to that and the mod swapper. Took me some time, but I took the challenge. Then started a game at Impossible etc.

The first turn I got a warning that Global Warming was feared by my scientists.....

I agree that this makes the game a lot more difficult, but come on this is totally unrealistic!

Or maybe that is why the dynosaurs got extincted: They created too much polution!

Well, I am not going to play ctp2 anymore. I give up. It's just too much trouble to get it to work properly. Back to my good old civ2!

	17-10-2001 15:54									#60
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by campmajor! Well, I am not going to play ctp2 anymore. I give up. It's just too much trouble to get it to work properly.

That reminds me. Even with the Mods installed the game was very buggy. I don't know how many times it crashed when I tried to save the game. I resorted to saving the game every turn and hoping it wouldn't crash.
Like you, I eventually got fed up and deleted the game off my hard-drive.
As far as this topic goes. Stability is one more thing Civ3 will have over CTP2.