16-10-2001 10:26									#1
	Do we have to build all the trade route roads? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I don't know if anyone knows the answer to this, but...

Will the AI be smart/friendly enough to use their workers to build roads linking their cities to your cities for the purpose of trade?

I remember in one post Jeffrey Morris saying that you can build roads in ALL territories, and that he does it all the time with his workers to make trade routes with other nations...

If that's the case, does that mean it is up to the PLAYER to build all/most of the trade routes? Will the computer ever go out of its way to do the same? Does the AI have that capacity?

I really hope so.

	16-10-2001 15:29									#2
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Are you implying that, if I trade for the Aztec's spices, roads have to be built? Maybe I'm slow, but I hadn't pictured this. I thought that the "connected by road" rule applied just to your own civ's gathering of resources.

	16-10-2001 17:32									#3
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AFAIK, to be able to trade with another civ, there has to be a road (or harbor,or airport) connecting your capitol with theirs.

The AI's willingness to trade is unknown. It may be that they are so clueless as to make you do all the road building to connect you up, then they grab the benefits of trading.

HMMMNNNN..... I wonder if I can use that as leverage in the trade negotiations.

	16-10-2001 17:34									#4
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quote: Originally posted by old dog Are you implying that, if I trade for the Aztec's spices, roads have to be built? Maybe I'm slow, but I hadn't pictured this. I thought that the "connected by road" rule applied just to your own civ's gathering of resources.

Connected by road, port, or airport applies to trade inside and outside of your Civ. So you need a connection to another Civ prior to trading with them. From the official FAQ:

"You can trade goods with another civ as long as you have a road, harbor, or airport that connects your civilization with theirs. Once you have a trade route, you simply negotiate with the other civilization in the diplomacy screen."
http://www.civ3.com/faq4.cfm

That said, it would be impossible for the CPU Civs to remain competitive if they did not build decent road networks. Still, you may have to make the final link from your roads to theirs.

	16-10-2001 17:47									#5
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It seems to me that on an average map just one harbour should suffice to trade with nearly any other civ.

	16-10-2001 20:05									#6
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Since the AI will probably love to build roads in their own territories, I don't think you need to worry about it. You'll just have to connect your roads to the closest road of the other civ.

	16-10-2001 21:44									#7
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We are going to have to hope the AIs will be smart enough to build colonies and roads thereto. We will NOT be able to build roads inside their territories according to the Civ III site.

	16-10-2001 21:45									#8
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A Civ AI that didn't build roads all over its country would be more of a shock

With worldbuilder choices seemingly stuck between 60% and 80% ocean in the options screen it is quite likely that the AI won't go roadbuilding through the wilderness to find you but will rely on port to port networks instead. That doen't require it to be more intelligent than founding cities on coastline occasionally.

	16-10-2001 23:39									#9
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I am curious, if it is also possible to build roads in the border of another civ to to complete trade route roads. Or have you first to sign pact for free passage to do so?

	16-10-2001 23:43									#10
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dan said workers dont violate territoral agreements.

	16-10-2001 23:46									#11
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Um... never mind.

	16-10-2001 23:52									#12
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We're told the AI doesn't need to cheat at lower levels so they are going to need the same access to strategic/luxury resources as we will. Hence they're going to build roads, and everywhere as always.

For my money the other questions are:

1/ Do roads give a commerce bonus so we're going to have to build roads everywhere as well?

2/ Does the AI get a bonus from the use our roads when attacking?

David

	17-10-2001 00:32									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Barshy If that's the case, does that mean it is up to the PLAYER to build all/most of the trade routes? Will the computer ever go out of its way to do the same? Does the AI have that capacity?

If you want to play efficiently, you must do it yourself.

I also hope that establishing a coastal-city with harbour + switching maps with foreign Civs through diplomacy, isnt by itself enough in order to get those ocean trade-routes.

If above is the case, theres no or little incentive to invest in land-based international trade-routes - why should one? Every AI-civ is likely to have coastal-cities anyway, and if the only additional requirement would be unrevealed maps through diplomatic map-swappings...

I really hope that one must move out and discover - not with endless amounts of camel-equipped caravels, like in Civ-2 . But with 3-5 exploring & oceanic trade-establishing ships - each of them heading in a certain compass direction.

	17-10-2001 00:44									#14
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@ UberkruX:
I like your avatar

	17-10-2001 00:55									#15
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I would hope that the AI will AT LEAST go halfway and leave the rest to you. It would be real cool if the AI sees a resource you have, is one it wants, and completes the road, or if you absolutely have nothing to offer the AI, it wouldn't build any roads to your cities.

	17-10-2001 01:03									#16
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I hope the AI is smart enough to built roads within it’s own borders.

at UberKurX's new avatar.

	17-10-2001 05:19									#17
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quote: We are going to have to hope the AIs will be smart enough to build colonies and roads thereto. We will NOT be able to build roads inside their territories according to the Civ III site.

Is this correct? I know that you won't be able to use roads (or railroads) in foreign territory, but I don't recall any restriction on building roads in foreign territory. So if the AI doesn't build roads in your direction, you should be able to go over there with your workers and do it yourself. As someone else mentioned, workers in foreign territory do not violate treaties.

I am very intrigued by this harbors issue. I agree that if simply building a harbor enables you to trade with any other civ you've encountered with a harbor, then the harbor "connection" will be so easy as to render the road "connection" a waste of time. A somewhat better requirement might be you have a harbor, the foreign civ has a harbor, and you've fully explored a sea route from your harbor to their harbor.

	17-10-2001 17:42									#18
	the harbors thing Put an end to popups!

Since we know that there will be 3 levels of water (coastal, seas, and oceans), I am wondering how that will affect trade.

For example, if you are the first to brave the seas on the earth map and cross from afrioa to the americas and make contact with the aztecs, will you be able to trade with them, or do you have to wait until they have deep water capabilities?

If you do have to wait, can you trade techs to facilitate their trade ability?

what are the limits of what you can do without a road/harbor/airport connection?

I suppose I could build a city on their land solely for the purpose of trading with them, but if they've filled up the land....


man, I can already see myself as a trading magnate

	17-10-2001 17:58									#19
	The little question you were afraid to ask! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Civ A has a road to Civ B, Civ B has a road to Civ C, Civ A has no road to Civ C. No harbours, no airports.
Does A can trade with C? Nobody OWN the roads, I think... because you can build them wherever you want - even in foreign territory.
Can B interfere?
If not, when you build a road, you build it for EVERYONE.

	17-10-2001 18:05									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Yoleus Civ A has a road to Civ B, Civ B has a road to Civ C, Civ A has no road to Civ C. No harbours, no airports. Does A can trade with C? Nobody OWN the roads, I think... because you can build them wherever you want - even in foreign territory. Can B interfere? If not, when you build a road, you build it for EVERYONE.

We don't know. I would hope that if I stand astride the only way through the mountains to the civs on the other side, that no civ that doesn't have a "right of passage" treaty would be able to trade through me. so I could get rich being the trading dude.

That is of course, if, IF, I can resell goods sold to me by another civ.