17-01-2000 08:07									#1
	ATTENTION SCENARIO EXPERTS! Support Apolyton

All right, here's a tough one. In the scenario I'm creating (Operation Allied Force), I'm trying to simulate the destruction of a SAM headquarters building in Serbia. The result I wish to achieve is that all Serbian SAM units of a particular type are destroyed (rendered inoperable) when the headquarters building is destroyed. I figured the easiest way to do this would be to give Serbia (controlled by the computer) the technology that makes the SAM units obsolete. I've always understood that the computer disbands all obsolete units, but apparently I'm only partially correct.

In one instance, there are 10 SAM #1 units (all the exact same unit) that the computer should treat as obsolete and thus disband. However, when the computer receives the appropriate tech, it disbands only seven of the 10. In another instance the computer disbands 5 of 10 SAM #2 units. What's up with this? Why would it delete only some of these obsolete units??

	17-01-2000 09:01									#2
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This also concerns me for my scenario TRAFOTSU. I haven't tried making the units obsolete yet (I haven't gotten that far), but this information could provide useful to me, as well.

I listening.

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President of the Apolyton Workers' Union

"Workers of All the World, Unite!!"

	17-01-2000 14:01									#3
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It will eventually disband them. There's no way to make them do it automatically (With the exception of Leo's).

	17-01-2000 17:40									#4
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Can't you simply set that particular headquarters (if that's a city) to be the home city of the SAM units?
You could make a size 1 city, with a high defensive (immobile) unit in it, and no possibility for the city to grow. Give all SAMs from that base that city as home (give it a factory etc. to make up for support)... In this case you don't even need events to accomplish the task, allowing for more events to be used elsewhere.
[This message has been edited by Mercator (edited January 17, 2000).]

	17-01-2000 17:53									#5
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What about giving Serbians the Leonardo's Workshop ! Thus all units would be immediatly replaced by an other one which would be very weak.

	17-01-2000 23:40									#6
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Fast_Eddie, Pano:

Good suggestions, but I have, indeed, given the Serbians Leo's. Here is how I use it.

The player must first destroy the Central Air Defense headquarters building (unit in Belgrade). Once this is accomplished, three types of SAM units are replaced by a less threatening version (in the northern sector, SA-13 1a => SA-13 2a, in central sector, SA-13 1b => SA-13 2b, in southern sector SA-13 1C => SA-13 2c). The less threatening version is easier to find and destroy. This is accomplished via three "give tech" events to the Serbs and the fact they have Leo's.

However, in this event I also create three regional headquarters (north, central, south). And this is where my problem arises. When one of the regional headquarter buildings is destroyed, the Serbs get the tech which makes obsolete all SA-13 units in that sector, i.e. if north HQ building is destroyed, the tech to make SA-13 2a is given and thus the computer should automatically disband all these units. But again, for some odd reason, it only disbands some of them.

Mercator:

This is also a good idea, however as you can see from the above explanation, it doesn't fit in with my current implementation. Of course, if I can't make this work out, I think your idea would work well.

I have MGE if it matters...

	18-01-2000 00:40									#7
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Perhaps you could let those three "weak" SAM types be upgraded to an immobile, zero defense unit with no icon. This would effectively make these SAMs completely useless (and invisible to human players) and not much of a problem for enemy units.
It's not a very elegant solution, but it works.

	18-01-2000 02:37									#8
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if your SAM are immobile units, with the events change the ground where the SAM units are when the SAM headq unit is destroy.

	25-01-2000 18:30									#9
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Mercator: Yes, or possibly some sort of "Crap Civilian Engineer" units that might have worked the SAMs before, but flee the building. There was something like this in C&C, I believe...

	26-01-2000 04:02									#10
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The inelegant solution that I finally arrived at is this:

Once the regional SAM headquarters is destroyed, I promote the weakened SAM #2 units one more time (via Leo's). This time the SAM's are promoted to "rubble" and given an appropriate graphic and harmless stats. Ugly, but effective.

	26-01-2000 08:07									#11
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just wondering about the Leo's workshop? When I'vee given a tech to the human civ the upgrade doesn't work. From Legion to Muskateer. But if I change the scieence to that tech that upgrades and its completed next turn, everything upgrades. Do you have to research the tech so it upgrades (via Leo's)or can you give a tech via events to allow it to upgrade.

	27-01-2000 05:45									#12
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Civfan-

I guess I don't know how it would work with a human - all my obsolete techs get awarded to the ai. In these instances, the upgrade works well except for one small hitch - the upgrade doesn't occur until it's the computer's turn.

	28-01-2000 02:50									#13
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The upgrade is the way to go... Making units obsolete will cause the AI to disband them OVER TIME, but it may take as much as 10-12 turns to get rid of them all. "Homing" them in a city will only last as long as the AI doesn't decide to "re-home" them to other cities which the AI does regularly. I have the exact same problem in RedFront where "Romanian surrender" is supposed to cause all Romanian troops to be disbanded, via the combination of "homing" all Romanian troops in Bucharest AND making them obsolete when Bucharest is captured... to no avail they are still around 10 turns later.
"Upgrading" them to invisible air units with 1 mp will almost get rid of them for sure as the AI does understand that those units will crash as soon as they leave the city.

	30-01-2000 10:30									#14
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Captain Nemo-

Very clever idea! This worked perfectly. The SAM units got upgraded to air units with a movement of 1 and a range of 1. They were all gone by the next turn.

For any other scenario creators out there, this is a very effective way to be sure that ai units are disbanded/destroyed.