17-10-2001 17:17									#1
	Does anyone know how air power works? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I've heard that they changed the way fighters and bombers work, but how?

-Alech

	17-10-2001 17:28									#2
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From the Civfanatics Infocentre :

quote: Air Missions: Air units have operational ranges within which they can execute air missions. The primary bonus of this is that air units no longer function like super fast ground units. Airstrikes: Later in the game airstrikes allow a selective destruction of specific buildings.

	17-10-2001 17:33									#3
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I've read that before. But how do they move to a city? Do they have to be based in a perticular area, or do thay have a certain 'reach' within you civ?

-Alech

PS: How come your profile seems to indicate you joined this forum 6 years before I was even born?

	17-10-2001 17:54									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Akaoz I've read that before. But how do they move to a city? Do they have to be based in a perticular area, or do thay have a certain 'reach' within you civ? -Alech

From the civlopedia screenshot they seem to have a "bombard range", so I guess you do need a city, airbase, or carrier close by.

	17-10-2001 17:56									#5
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We've been waiting for Civ 3 for a looong time. Apolyton predicted it 10 years before Sid wrote Civ 1

It looks like the unit itself is physically based on a particular tile and can then conduct air operations within a certain range of that tile without the player having to fly it out there and back again. The only time it will move is if you fly the airplane to a new base, and even that is probably done by jumping from base to base rather than using tile-by-tile movement. Pretty standard stuff used often in wargames.

	17-10-2001 18:00									#6
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quote: How come your profile seems to indicate you joined this forum 6 years before I was even born?

I'm not really sure it says 1969, but I know that people who've been on these forums for a few years (like me), were given that date when Apolyton changed forum software. I've been around before SMAC and around the time when CIV II was just out.

	17-10-2001 18:06									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Akaoz I've read that before. But how do they move to a city? Do they have to be based in a perticular area, or do thay have a certain 'reach' within you civ?

Like Grumbold mentioned, they probably operate on one tile. You choose which target to strike and then the aircraft goes out and hits it. I'm not sure what it looks like, how it is animated, or whether it is animated at all (I sure hope so), but that's how it will work.

Fighters will simply scramble if a bomber comes within range, and I guess there would be a random chance of success of interception.

This is much better than CIV II.

I would be willing to bet that if your fighters are within range, they will also fly to protect the bombers and intercept the interceptors. No one knows for sure, but this is a probability, which is much more realistic!

Of course, there should always be an element of chance, and I hope that there is a chance that these missions will fail.

	17-10-2001 18:21									#8
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I have an extra question, if you put a fighter in a city does it defend it against air attacks and the squares around or just the city/base were it is located?

	17-10-2001 19:45									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Deathwalker: I have an extra question, if you put a fighter in a city does it defend it against air attacks and the squares around or just the city/base were it is located?

That's a good question Death, and logically speaking... if Firaxis really did re-examine Air combat and warfare, then they would have to have thought about this. To assume is really all we can do, and I think that they would have allowed for unit scrambling withing the air unit's operational range.

If all of these elements are included in CIV III, air superiority will play a huge role in modern warfare, just as it does in real life.

My only hope is that bombardment in general is effective enough to be worth the investment in the hardware. There seems to be a great deal of people that frequent these forums that believe that artillery in SMAC was a waste of resources. Hopefully, these units will be more effective than in SMAC.

	17-10-2001 20:33									#10
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There was talk of flying CAP missions but its been a long time since we heard anything. Armies have undergone several mutations since then so its hard to say what has happened to airpower. It will be a big disappointment if they don't at least attempt to protect friendly targets within their effective response range ... and without having to be assigned that mission each turn.

	17-10-2001 20:38									#11
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Grumbold:

If planes can protect units from air attack within their operational range, I'm sure that there will be an "intercept" command, whereas they will try to intercept any incoming aircraft threat.

I really hope that these are in the game because I absolutely hated the way air combat worked in other CIV games, and SMAC included.

	17-10-2001 20:51									#12
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That would be the best way. You might have to assign planes to cover specific stacks. Lets hope they choose a nice convenient way of doing it.

	17-10-2001 21:26									#13
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here is the stealth bomber pic

http://www.multiplayer.it/show.php3...500/s_img15.jpg

i also agree with grumbold, i think an air unit remains on a single tile and then can conduct any air mission available to that unit within its operational range

so fighters most likely have an intercept air mission, while bombers have a precision strike

also i believe that rate of fire determines how many air operations a turn an air unit can conduct...so the stealth bomber could carry out four air missions within its operational range a turn

as far as movement goes, i think when an air unit moves that it will use most if not all of a turn...like it could possibly work like this, movement is an air operation so a stealth bomber could spend three rates of fire moving to a new airbase, then conduct its last air mission bombing a building

the movement part is unconfirmed and only my conjecture

	17-10-2001 21:56									#14
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Maybe fighters will automatically attack a enemy bomber flies into the fighters zone of control like a sea fortress attacks automatically an enemy ship.

	17-10-2001 22:04									#15
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Thats the way it is in civ2 cyril, atleast with cities.....if a bomber directly attacks a city, the strongest fighter in the city will scramble and defend the city. Usually it will defeat the bomber as well.

	17-10-2001 22:08									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin I'm not really sure it says 1969, but I know that people who've been on these forums for a few years (like me), were given that date when Apolyton changed forum software. I've been around before SMAC and around the time when CIV II was just out.

And the real freaky thing is that even though I'm only a prince he's only a fecking warlord!!!!!!

Which means he must either take longer sabaticles than I do or had something real nasty happen to his post count.

	17-10-2001 22:14									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Grumbold We've been waiting for Civ 3 for a looong time. Apolyton predicted it 10 years before Sid wrote Civ 1 It looks like the unit itself is physically based on a particular tile and can then conduct air operations within a certain range of that tile without the player having to fly it out there and back again. The only time it will move is if you fly the airplane to a new base, and even that is probably done by jumping from base to base rather than using tile-by-tile movement. Pretty standard stuff used often in wargames.

Then I wonder how they be destroyed. Do we get a report on the lossage of aircrafts after the mission is finished? That, as realistic as it is, sucks imo.

	17-10-2001 22:21									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Faboda And the real freaky thing is that even though I'm only a prince he's only a fecking warlord!!!!!!

Actually, both events occured, Faboda. I did take a "leave of absence" one might say: A bunch of things happened; I got really, really ill, and very nearly died; I bought a house and moved; I changed jobs; I got married; all in 2 years... and I'm only 28 years old! Yikes! Insane huh?

And... my count from before was lost. I used to be the web master of the site that is now known as Apolyton's SMAC site, until I decided to give it up in Markos' very capable hands.

	18-10-2001 00:38									#19
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I hope they have included an option to execute all air attacks simultaneously so that a city with say 4 sam sites would not get 4 attacks vs. EACH plane I send their way

	18-10-2001 00:50									#20
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All of this reminds of the way air units were handled in Dan Bunten's COMMAND HQ. Air units in that wargame could only land in cities or carriers and also had a limited fighting range. In Civ3 you'll probably be able to build airfields like in civ2 to move fighters closer to the front.


There's also something very important in relation to command hq, but I'll get to that soon.

	18-10-2001 05:20									#21
	Stealth bomber gets four attacks?! Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I thing that would be really cool, if you were on the dealing end of it, but imagine in multiplayer games-- someone has 1 stealth bomber in range of one of your major cities-- they launch an attack against your solar plant, your factory, and your power plant, or some awful combination like that. In 1 turn, they destroy all that, then how many will it take you to recover, assuming you can't just rush buy stuff? A LONG TIME. You might lose the war because of 1 stealth bomber... Sure, I know you'd have fighters, so they'd never get away that easily, but still, seems kind of powerful to me.

	18-10-2001 08:49									#22
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quote: assuming you can't just rush buy stuff

bad assumption, you can rush buy (not like i haven't made a few hundred of those )

also here is from the new interview

quote: there are now three additional types of combat: bombardment, missile attacks, and air combat. Bombardment is not limited to targeting enemy units--players can also use it against terrain improvements (roads and the like) and cities (where it may cause a population decrease or destroy city structures). Missiles operate in a similar way, but they are expended once the attack is conducted. And air units now have a specialized range of missions, running the gamut from air superiority to recon and precision bombing.

so now we know of a few of the air missions

	18-10-2001 09:42									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin Actually, both events occured, Faboda. I did take a "leave of absence" one might say: A bunch of things happened; I got really, really ill, and very nearly died; I bought a house and moved; I changed jobs; I got married; all in 2 years... and I'm only 28 years old! Yikes! Insane huh? And... my count from before was lost. I used to be the web master of the site that is now known as Apolyton's SMAC site, until I decided to give it up in Markos' very capable hands.

Sounds like an interesting time in your life at least

	18-10-2001 19:57									#24
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Then there are people who only post when they have something unique to add......