18-10-2001 02:34									#1
	Are "spies" just new "diplomats"? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Does anyone know if in Civ3, the abstracted spies are just the upgraded version of the abstracted diplomats?

This question just popped up for me only b/c of the recent editor screen that was posted, in which you can set the experience of spies and diplomats for each government.

I was thinking it'd be better if there were a difference between diplomat functions and spy functions, and each govt would be good at different functions.

	18-10-2001 19:31									#2
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Actually there are no spies, at least not as a unit. All espionage is made from a screen, which is different effective in different governments.

	18-10-2001 19:39									#3
	Re: Are "spies" just new "diplomats"? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Barshy I was thinking it'd be better if there were a difference between diplomat functions and spy functions, and each govt would be good at different functions.

The functions are separate. Spying/Espionage take place from an abstracted Espionage screen in the game, and diplomacy is more a function of the Trade screen (I'll give you these resources for this type of treaty, etc.). Based on the editor screenshot we've seen, the ability of various government types to deal with one or the other can be set separately.

	18-10-2001 20:45									#4
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I find it a little odd that your ability to conduct espionage is somehow affected by your government type. I can understand it having a bearing on your security (more democratic, less secure) but being a dictatorship or republic doesn't make your spies more or less competent IMO.

	18-10-2001 22:57									#5
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I disagree, a dictator will use a lot of police to suppress his citizens. So the spies do have more "training"

	18-10-2001 23:31									#6
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Does anyone know what the factors in espionage will be?

How do I build up my capacity to spy on other civs? Will it be sort of like MoO2?

-Alech

	18-10-2001 23:33									#7
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quote: Originally posted by cyril25376 I disagree, a dictator will use a lot of police to suppress his citizens. So the spies do have more "training"

Yeah and well a dictator would also make the populace have more reason to spy against them so there is more to this then your simplistic discription. I think it is all just going to be based on the amount you pay your spies (resources) and how much you use them (experience). The more for both the better your espionage will be.

	18-10-2001 23:56									#8
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I think that how good the spies are should depend on how mush mony you offer them. Now I don't know whether or not you can have x gold each day set to espionage, but I doubt it; something for Civ4.

	19-10-2001 00:03									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Gramphos I think that how good the spies are should depend on how mush mony you offer them. Now I don't know whether or not you can have x gold each day set to espionage, but I doubt it; something for Civ4.

Or just not.

I want civ to be civ, I don't want it to be Space Empires.

	19-10-2001 00:19									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Faboba Or just not. I want civ to be civ, I don't want it to be Space Empires.

Make it this way then:

Make some advances that increase the power of espionage, and some that increase the protection against espionage.

	19-10-2001 00:25									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Faboba Or just not. I want civ to be civ, I don't want it to be Space Empires.

Hey, if SE has an innovative way method for turn based play - by all means Firaxis, please incorporate it! Don't be shy. DOn't get into that whole "pride of originality" thing. It ain't Mozart, its a game. Make it good.

Don't worry Fab, it'll still be Civ, so much will be obvious when you're negotiating with the Russians as opposed to the Eee (although, a cool mod might be to add the Eee as a civ, hmmm ...)

	19-10-2001 00:32									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Forgot to ask:
Is there a game named Space Empires?
(If so: I've never heard of it)