18-10-2001 11:36									#1
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Look closely at the hill I have marked red:
It should be outside the range of Antium (1), Veij (2), and the city in the southwest (3).

So why is that hill inside the border???

Attachment: civ3_screen001.jpg
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	18-10-2001 11:42									#2
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i don't think it's necessarily a bug, just rather than have the border loop way in then out again, and because the area is small, the border just encloses it. sort of as a bonus square that is in your territory, even though it's not in a city radius. .

	18-10-2001 11:43									#3
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My best guess it the hill admired your culture so much that it converted.

	18-10-2001 12:30									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tribune So why is that hill inside the border???

In another screenshot, that city on the southwest is Rome. It's big, but it's border on the other side only stretches three spaces, so you may be right.

On the other hand, it could be as connor says, or something along those lines. Maybe the game is programmed to absorb squares that are surrounded on three sides by your culture, like that hill is. Otherwise, the mapping would start to contain a lot of goofy looking pockets outside anyone's borders.

	18-10-2001 12:43									#5
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 My best guess it the hill admired your culture so much that it converted.

you just could not resist?


actually the city ono the southwest looks big enough for some mean culture rating....

	18-10-2001 13:10									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Falconius On the other hand, it could be as connor says, or something along those lines. Maybe the game is programmed to absorb squares that are surrounded on three sides by your culture, like that hill is. Otherwise, the mapping would start to contain a lot of goofy looking pockets outside anyone's borders.

Hah, Would be a cool, rainy afternoon strategie to try to get as many land within your borders with the least number of cities needed. Maybe even something for an Apolyton Contest?

	18-10-2001 13:12									#7
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quote: Originally posted by tuckson Hah, Would be a cool, rainy afternoon strategie to try to get as many land within your borders with the least number of cities needed. Maybe even something for an Apolyton Contest?

there was one tolstoy's novel about such a contest in baskhiria...and it ended badly for the greedy bastards

	18-10-2001 13:30									#8
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By this same token I think it's likely ( and the scrrenshots would seem to support this ) that if you can four cities with borders extenind round in a square and the middle of that square has no other city in it, your civ will be awared the land.

	18-10-2001 14:30									#9
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it was something I really hated about CtP2,
the borders of your cities didn't fit with each other, so in fact you got all small pieces of land, and in the middle of your cities there was land you didn't control.

it just doesn't make sence that way.
I hope this proofs that this won't be the case with civ3

	18-10-2001 14:33									#10
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Its probably because the cities use culture rating for borbers to "grow" and so maybe squares between borders can use accumelated culture points of all adjecting cities to also become inside the border and in that way make the borders more realistic!

	18-10-2001 15:37									#11
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Yes it looks like (at least in that version of the pre-release game) some form of border normalisation is taking place. The tile would have been surrounded on 3 sides by your controlled land and has no other cultural pressure preventing it being absorbed. Like Cybershy I'll be delighted if this means tiles trapped in the centre of your territory get absorbed into your country rather than remaining isolated and unclaimed.

	18-10-2001 15:52									#12
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It was stated before somewhere ( I think one of the interviews) that borders would be 'smoothed out'- meaning, you would be given them anyway if your border had certain 'holes' in it.

	18-10-2001 16:02									#13
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I dont think the border is set by the range of your city, it wasn't in SMAC

	18-10-2001 16:04									#14
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That would be Great!

No more adding cities to fill up the gaps (resulting in riots because of exceeding a certain number of cities....).

One more piece of evidence that civ3 will be much and much better than ctp2!

	18-10-2001 16:13									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Deathwalker I dont think the border is set by the range of your city, it wasn't in SMAC

Borders are determined by culture. Eventually the most impressive cities may push their borders out 5 tiles.

	18-10-2001 19:12									#16
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My understanding is that there are two types of 'border'. One is the 'border' around a city which has all the workable lands that can be worked within the city. This expands as the culture grows. First it is one square radius then two etc.

The other border is your Civ/Empire border that marks your lands. If you imagine the map of the USA - it isn't defined by cities but by the land that the nation claims/controls. In SMAC you had borders but you also had a fixed city radius.

	18-10-2001 19:43									#17
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Well it looks like there may be some system for smoothing out borders when there are gaps between cities; that is my reckoning, but who knows?

And Cybershy, there is one thing I didn't like about CtP2: The game

	18-10-2001 20:13									#18
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 My best guess it the hill admired your culture so much that it converted.

	18-10-2001 20:51									#19
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What if an enemy placed a city on that tile of land to the east of the disputed tile. Should that city lay claim to the hill? I guess its first come, first served.

	18-10-2001 21:01									#20
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 My best guess it the hill admired your culture so much that it converted.

lol

	18-10-2001 23:53									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Slax What if an enemy placed a city on that tile of land to the east of the disputed tile. Should that city lay claim to the hill? I guess its first come, first served.

According to the official FAQ, when two cities share tiles, the city with the higher culture wins the tile. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

	19-10-2001 01:12									#22
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quote: Originally posted by SITS My understanding is that there are two types of 'border'. One is the 'border' around a city which has all the workable lands that can be worked within the city. This expands as the culture grows. First it is one square radius then two etc.

I hope this isn't true, cause then we're back to CTP2.

But I've not seen a screenshot from the city management screen that shows only a single ring of squares. All of them show the full 21 squares regardless of the city size. So I think culture expands the borders out from the city allowing it to claim the full radius as its own. Hence the Roman's got to the hill first and it's theirs, good on Caesar.

David

	19-10-2001 01:40									#23
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy it was something I really hated about CtP2, the borders of your cities didn't fit with each other, so in fact you got all small pieces of land, and in the middle of your cities there was land you didn't control. it just doesn't make sence that way. I hope this proofs that this won't be the case with civ3

EXACTLY the way I feel about it!

Also, I think the game treats land differently than it does ocean, and land 'sandwiched' between your cities gets consideration for inclusion(to oclude dead spots) and not land skirting your cities.