18-10-2001 15:14									#1
	On which areas should a civ game be rated? Tired of ads?

for example:

gamespy has two ratings: design & technical
gamespot has 5: gameplay, graphics, sound, value, tilt
ign also has 5 : presentation, graphics, sound, gameplay, lasting appeal

	18-10-2001 15:41									#2
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Go with the gameplay. Anything else is merely peripheral.

Example - Sensible Soccer. Looked awful, but still the best football game ever.

	18-10-2001 16:20									#3
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Gameplay for sure

But for CivIII, the graphics and sound should probably be rated as well, but keeping in mind that this is a TBS game, and not a 3d RTS. From what samples I have seen and heard, CivIII is going to excel in these two areas. But I know that usually, TBS games seem to fall short of the glory of their RTS siblings.

Replayability. I think this is a good aspect to judge any TBS game on. Replay encompasses not only how long the game keeps its players interested, but what kind of modding, editing, scenario making can be done to the game.

design & technical? To the laymen, these two terms mean nothing. Or maybe they just don't mean anything to me

And that 'tilt' one that is at gamespot- never did quite get that myself

	18-10-2001 17:42									#4
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I second anu's suggestion of replayability. (lasting appeal)

Its really all that matters to me. What good is a game if you beat it once and then never want to play it again? Thats called a huge waste of money.

Civ2 gets a ten on replayability and I imagine civ3 will too (once it gets MP)

Woops, let that one slip

	18-10-2001 19:52									#5
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Well, I would say these:

Playability: Is it fun? Easy to use?
Graphics: Does it look good?
Sound: I find, that years later, sounds from many games are still with me.
Attention to detail: Is it buggy? Major programming glitches?
Replay value: Is it worth repeated play? Big selling point, I think.
Multiplayer compatible: Another major selling point. Maybe we will get a straight answer, instead of double talk.

That's about it, from my point of view.

	18-10-2001 21:16									#6
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- fun
- addictiveness
- replayability

Everything else is just chrome

	18-10-2001 21:20									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

If you are asking about your review of Civ III, I want to see whether it is worth it. I mean we have been waiting five years and expect a lot (maybe too much) so did they deliver? Is it all that it could be? Not just the ratings that other sites give but ratings of whether or not this is the best that can be done at this time. Is it balanced? Is it as great as Civ I? Will ten years from now, will I still be playing it? Ask some questions and answer them that only can be done by the Civ community that has been obsessed for so long.

	19-10-2001 06:48									#8
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mostly gameplay, but I like the presentation category from ign- this is how a game's storyline ( if it has a solid one ) can be in harmony with the programming - the SMAC review is a good example of this, and widens it a lot next to all other reviews from any other site . The lasting appeal is closely related to replayability, which is closely dependent to the fluidity and versatility of the gameplay. This is where the TBS genre overcome the RTS, but cannot be seriously rated before 6months, if not a full year after release in my mind. So any rating about replayability or lasting appeal (or related to) is completely irrelevent in a review published immediately after the release.

	19-10-2001 12:06									#9
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the Apolyton review wont have any ratings, but here are my suggestions(which along with your suggestions will be used for something else )

Gameplay
Graphics
Sound
Replayability
Mod-friendliness
AI
Interface

i guess Interface could be replaced with Presentation, to also include the manual and the charts, and the general look and feel of the game

	20-10-2001 04:04									#10
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG the Apolyton review wont have any ratings, but here are my suggestions(which along with your suggestions will be used for something else ) Gameplay Graphics Sound Replayability Mod-friendliness AI Interface i guess Interface could be replaced with Presentation, to also include the manual and the charts, and the general look and feel of the game

pity you didnt include Chis's and Drakes comment re MP.. just because they havent included it means we should be able to lower the overall rating a sa good game nowadays should have MP... IMHO anyway....

	20-10-2001 04:22									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Rasputin pity you didnt include Chis's and Drakes comment re MP.. just because they havent included it means we should be able to lower the overall rating a sa good game nowadays should have MP... IMHO anyway....

i disagree

you judge a game based on what it actually promises on the box, not on what the company had announced 2.5 years ago or what you expected it to be in your dreams...

	20-10-2001 04:56									#12
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then how do you judg ethe other items you have listed, rarely do companies claim replayability levels , nor do they say how great the sound is .. so if people start judging the game only on what the game box promises it should rate 100% in all areas. To get a good judgment of the game you need to compare it to other games and also to your own expectations of the game IMHO

	20-10-2001 05:03									#13
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG i disagree you judge a game based on what it actually promises on the box, not on what the company had announced 2.5 years ago or what you expected it to be in your dreams...

Than why are we discussing it?
Have they relaesed the box yet?

And you answered the king of pointless posts!

Many more to follow....

	20-10-2001 05:33									#14
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i cant see how trying to get a more fair (IMO) rating system implemented is pointless. I think mark tends to ignore my pointless remarks and only asnswers those that need answering... I for one apprecaite this subtle difference...

	20-10-2001 10:34									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 And you answered the king of pointless posts!

look who's talking....

	20-10-2001 10:52									#16
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actually i am beginning to see a trend mark... I post Chris posts ... Hmmmm I think he is stalking me ..... HELP !!!!

	20-10-2001 12:24									#17
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Markos, I think that an Interface portion of the review is a good idea, especially since games of the TBS nature tend to make/break the game by their interfaces many times

As far as the lack of MP factoring into a review: maybe make a mention of it, but I hope that no one will drop the rating points of their review because of it, especially since MP is supposedly on the way.

	20-10-2001 13:48									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba As far as the lack of MP factoring into a review: maybe make a mention of it, but I hope that no one will drop the rating points of their review because of it, especially since MP is supposedly on the way.

there is also another idea

have an MP rating and an SP rating instead of an AI(see my list above)

then have two more averages, with only SP or MP counted in

	20-10-2001 18:47									#19
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I say let people devise their own categories. Most of us are intelligent enough to know what matters to us, personally. No "compound rating", just a single one, and let reviewers break it down or not according to their own preferences. I, personally, would rahter write a single text to deal with everything than dividing it up into artificial paragraphs.

	21-10-2001 02:53									#20
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Even when reviewing a game at large with a single text, each writer will inevitably subdivise its comments within specific categories. So if Apolyton want to collate and compare reviews of Civ III, for example, it's always good to have major "compounds" to follow- otherwise this will become an anarchic mess of threads. "Presentation" and/or Interface can include all the details the reviewer wants to talk like AI, MP, windows navigation, editor , mod, in-game story development/movies , etc... so in this case, I'll tend to stick globally with the ign formula, but gameplay first and more details devoted to presentation instead of replayability.

Like this?:

-Gameplay mechanics
-Presentation & Interface
-Graphics
-Sound
-Replayability: SP ( Civ III), MP ( other game), and both combined ( other game ).