18-10-2001 19:53									#1
	Condensors on Forest Suffering from ads?

Noticed something rather odd happening in a Morgan game last night. I have several squares with both a Condensor and a Forest! They were functioning as expected, with the Condensor adding +1 nutrient to the forest's production. One is on a nutrient bonus, and the square is producing 6-2-3 also as expected (the base has a Tree Farm but not a Hybrid Forest.)

So I activate scenario editor, create a couple dozen formers, and try to replicate it. No luck. Anytime a former completes a Forest or Condenser, the other gets replaced. Best guess I can make is that if you build a Condensor on a square but DON'T Farm the land, forest can still naturally spread onto the square. I also noticed that if a Condensor is removed, the squares don't lose the raininess, although the raininess does seem to get recalculated if terrain raises/lowers in the area.

I also have one square that somehow has both a Borehole and a Forest. I can't figure out how THAT happened at all. It's producing 0-6-7 as usual (+2 Econ).

Weird... Anyone else seen this?

	18-10-2001 20:03									#2
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Try setting formers onto a square so that a forest and a condenser are finished on the same turn.

	18-10-2001 20:14									#3
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It may even work if the condenser and forest are both started before the other is finished - for example, this method can be used to overcome the "No Aquifers next to existing river" rule. The engine only seems to check for legal terraforming when the improvement is started.

	18-10-2001 22:41									#4
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The forest almost certainly grew into the square. I see this all the time when I place condensors outside my base radii to increase the inside raininess, but dont plan to crawl them. Eventually they get grown over. Same thing happens to monoliths, and probably to boreholes on non-rocky terrain.

The other time I commonly see this is when I haven't quickly rebuilt my farms after the negative random event destroys them all around a base.

	18-10-2001 23:03									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola Try setting formers onto a square so that a forest and a condenser are finished on the same turn.

That's what I was trying to replicate with a bunch of formers -- that doesn't work. As I said, whenever a forest or condensor is _completed_, the other gets replaced. Doesn't matter if it's on the same turn or not -- when a former completes a condensor, the game has no way of knowing if the forest has been there for a few seconds or four hundred years. It's NOT the same as the aquifer problem -- that's a case of the game only checking for "adjacent river" and failing to check for "former building river".

So almost certainly the forest grew onto the condensor squares, and apparently it can grow onto monoliths too. Interesting.

I'm still not sure about the borehole case, since I frequently build boreholes on non-rocky terrain (usually flat coastal), and I've only ever seen forest along with a borehole this once.

	18-10-2001 23:08									#6
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AFAIK forest and borehole (it happens) in same square won't give you any more than a regular borehole (however it does have a use in case of the borehole gets destroyed) - the same goes for monoliths.

	18-10-2001 23:47									#7
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Forests will also expand over solars and echelon mirrors - you get the nutrient and mineral values plus the enhanced energy value.

Natrurally occurring, though - you can't replicate it through terraforming

	19-10-2001 15:44									#8
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The benefit of borehole / forest is that if the borehole gets sniped, the forest remains in the square. Since it's a freebie I don't mind. Also with the monolith / forest squares if you use up the monolith at least you get a forest out of the deal, and if it's later in the game you probably want the forest more than the monolith anyway.