18-10-2001 22:01									#1
	UN Victory: Hmmm... Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

"Any civ that receives a majority of votes from the UN council wins the game. The catch here is that in order to even be on the UN council (and thus eligible to be elected UN leader), you must control 25 percent of either the world's territory or its population. The civilization that builds the United Nations wonder automatically gains a permanent council position."

What if terr/pop are relatively equally distributed among 5-7 civs?

In this case he who builds the UN will be the only member, and win the game.

Another case: Precisely 1 civ meets the requirement. It should build the UN for an Automatic Victory. So you can win the game with only 25% pop or terr, IF the rest is equally distributed.

Yet another case: 2 civs meet the requirements. Once the UN are built, the stronger of the two will vote for itself, and win the game again!

I can see a whole bundle of strategies here to exploit this and trick yourself to victory with 25% of the world population or territory. If this comes true, I claim the name 'Comrade Tribuneīs UN Gambit' for this.

	18-10-2001 22:24									#2
	Remove this text

I agree with you. This UN victory thing is totally lame.

	18-10-2001 22:29									#3
	Suffering from ads?

Well, you can turn UN victory off if you'd like to, but I think they have thought those things what you just said and come with some ideas. Let's just wait and see, ok?

	18-10-2001 22:33									#4
	UN Victory Suffering from ads?

It could be like Master of Orion II you get one vote per city(Colony in MOO) and you need a majority vote to win.

	18-10-2001 22:37									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The problem is, unlike Moo, you are not even in, if you donīt have 25%, and this is what will create 'Comrade Tribuneīs UN Gambit'.

	18-10-2001 22:40									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

i would guess it would be the same as smac's diplo vitory. perhaps you will need 51% of the leaders to vote for you, and so the option only becomes availible when atleast that many re on the coucil.

	18-10-2001 23:55									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

For true utopian global unity it should require 100%.

It'll probably be the four biggest civs which are in always though = as they will be your main rivals.

	19-10-2001 00:01									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

There's a thread on this somewhere lost in the mists of time. By messing about with some examples there will roughly 2-4 Civs on the average council. Still not sure if votes are 1-1civ or weighted by population. Any news?

	19-10-2001 01:50									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Yah, I too am a little worried about the Diplomatic victory in Civ III. Guess we will have to wait for the game to come out. But there is always a way to stop a diplomatic victory

"The UN will be meeting later this year to elect a leader of the world"

"In other news, New York, the city where the United Nations is based, was nuked three times, taken over by paratroopers, and razed to the ground by a small country that did not get on the United Nations council"

	19-10-2001 02:39									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I like your idea

who cares if the UN gets you cheap victory... I'll just make sure it never happens

	19-10-2001 03:07									#11
	Re: UN Victory: Hmmm... Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tribune "Any civ that receives a majority of votes from the UN council wins the game. The catch here is that in order to even be on the UN council (and thus eligible to be elected UN leader), you must control 25 percent of either the world's territory or its population. The civilization that builds the United Nations wonder automatically gains a permanent council position."

This seems a bit odd to me. 25% world pop _or_ 25% world land... How many civs would that be max? 8? In theory there could be something like 8 civs on the council.

I am assuming this is supposed to simulate the permanent members of Security Council of the real UN. However France hardly qualifies on either counts, and neither does the UK I think. As for the US... no, I don't think they have 25% of the landmass. So in effect only China and maybe Russia (I'm not sure if it still 25% of total land mass) would sit on the 'council'.

My guess is that we don't have all the facts on this one just yet. If we do I agree it looks like a quick and (ch)easy victory...

-Alech

	19-10-2001 03:21									#12
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Akaoz This seems a bit odd to me. 25% world pop _or_ 25% world land... How many civs would that be max? 8? In theory there could be something like 8 civs on the council.

That would be possible... but only if the players who possessed 25% of the land had 0 population, and the players with 25% of the population had no land... which isn't very likely. Or possible.

The very maximum you could get would be 6, but realistically (since population usually grows with land, and vice versa) there would probably be about 3 or 4 countries that qualified. For that matter, the player that builds the UN will usually be one of the players who is already eligible, because large nations will probably reach the tech quicker and can focus on industry. So, 2 or 3 allies and you should be able to win easily... sounds too good to be true to me. I think it won't be that easy... we only have slight details from Firaxis, so don't base everything off this 25% rule just yet. Does anybody have any additional info?

	19-10-2001 03:29									#13
	Suffering from ads?

Remember the other civs only get one vote so they'll probably be to bloody minded to elect you - the smug self satisfied guy who built the damn thing,

Could I just say though, before we go any further, I am one again eternally thankful to Firaxis for the inclusion of something as simple as a button to turn this off, which many would have not bothered to give us.

Firaxis, I love you, I'm turning diplo victory off! ( I hope the UN will still elect a leader with it off, the leader just won't win the game, I'd just want that cheap ego trip to be elected world leader, Though I'll be the first to admit I'm not very Koffi Anan )

	19-10-2001 03:32									#14
	I don't think that's how it works... Support Apolyton

For one, I think that the UN doesn't convene for a while after building the UN.

Two, I think that players (human or computer) don't vote. It would work on something similar to the Approval rating algorithm. Remember that you have to get a MAJORITY vote to win. Just because you are eligible doesn't mean you'll win.

Three: In situation 2, you've already won the game, basically. In situation 1, that is the sort of thing that tips the balance and provokes World War (ironically) (hopefully the AI is good enough to know it's end is near) which should leave some clear winners and losers

	19-10-2001 03:50									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Akaoz This seems a bit odd to me. 25% world pop _or_ 25% world land... How many civs would that be max? 8? In theory there could be something like 8 civs on the council. I am assuming this is supposed to simulate the permanent members of Security Council of the real UN. However France hardly qualifies on either counts, and neither does the UK I think. As for the US... no, I don't think they have 25% of the landmass. So in effect only China and maybe Russia (I'm not sure if it still 25% of total land mass) would sit on the 'council'

Guess what? In the real world NOBODY fits the 25% criteria:

World: 148.94 million sq km landmass + 6,157,400,560 pop
Biggest country: Russia 16,995,800 sq km landmass (11.4% of world)
Most populated country: China 1,273,111,290 pop (20.7% of world)

Source: CIA world fact book http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/

	19-10-2001 04:15									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I stand corrected.

1, In my confused mind I figured wrong when it came to 8 civs being able to qualify.

2, I'm sure I read somewhere that the Soviet Union was something like 25% of the total landmass. I guess I underestimated the loss of land to the break off states.

3, I figured China was over 1 billon compared to a tot.pop of 5 billion (and that would still be only 20%). I clear forgot about the fact that the world passed 6 billion not long ago...

*sigh*

BTW, this could be why no one has won this round of Civ3

It still looks to easy to win with the parameters give tho. I agree that the voting system needs to be more complicated than one vote per council member.

And if it is messed up; thank you Firaxis for giving me the option of turning it off.


-Alech

	19-10-2001 05:13									#17
	Re: UN Victory: Hmmm... Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tribune "Any civ that receives a majority of votes from the UN council wins the game. The catch here is that in order to even be on the UN council (and thus eligible to be elected UN leader), you must control 25 percent of either the world's territory or its population. The civilization that builds the United Nations wonder automatically gains a permanent council position." What if terr/pop are relatively equally distributed among 5-7 civs? In this case he who builds the UN will be the only member, and win the game.

If you get far enough to build the UN without ANY other civs controlling 25% or more of landmass or population, then you need to play on a higher difficulty level.

PS- I imagine landmass is calculated with the exclusion of ocean mass.

PSS- SMAC Counsul votes were calculated with population and landmass, but I could be wrong...

	19-10-2001 05:23									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Faboba Remember the other civs only get one vote so they'll probably be to bloody minded to elect you - the smug self satisfied guy who built the damn thing, Could I just say though, before we go any further, I am one again eternally thankful to Firaxis for the inclusion of something as simple as a button to turn this off, which many would have not bothered to give us. Firaxis, I love you, I'm turning diplo victory off! ( I hope the UN will still elect a leader with it off, the leader just won't win the game, I'd just want that cheap ego trip to be elected world leader, Though I'll be the first to admit I'm not very Koffi Anan )

Hey hey hey Faboba! You don't know entirely how it works yet! Give them a chance first why don't you!

	19-10-2001 05:25									#19
	Suffering from ads?

SMAC votes were calculated with pop only. Each point was worth two votes.

	19-10-2001 07:44									#20
	Got spare money?

Doesn't the UN wonder come late in the game? I would think by that point, if you are the only eligible candidate for world leader, you have pretty much won already.

	19-10-2001 07:54									#21
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba Doesn't the UN wonder come late in the game? I would think by that point, if you are the only eligible candidate for world leader, you have pretty much won already.

yeah, this is like the wonder victory in AoK, where you build a wonder, and hold it for a number of years to win.

I would like it to include more Civs rather than just base the membership on landmass and pop. For example, the top science civ, the top military civ, the top econ civ, the civ with most culture point, the civ with most cities, should also be include in the UN council.

	19-10-2001 08:16									#22
	Got spare money?

And don't forget what happens when multiplayer comes out (and I emphasize "when"):

The UN will be pointless because what human player isn't going to vote for himself?

	19-10-2001 08:34									#23
	Re: Re: UN Victory: Hmmm... Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by cassembler f you get far enough to build the UN without ANY other civs controlling 25% or more of landmass or population, then you need to play on a higher difficulty level.

You didnīt quite get my idea. My concept is a cheesy tactics for the human player: You have an otherwise insignificant civ, but concentrate all your resources on building the UN before anybody crosses the 25% treshhold.

	19-10-2001 09:04									#24
	BUT WHAT ABOUT DOMNIATION VICTORY? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

You get domination victory when you control, what is it, 25% of the Earths landmass...so, what sec - on do you ever achieve military victory (wiping out all opponents)? Because if you get on the road to killing everyone, you're going to have over 25% of the landmass, which means you get the domniation victory - won't this make it impossible to get to the "military" victory?

	19-10-2001 09:20									#25
	Re: BUT WHAT ABOUT DOMNIATION VICTORY? Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Zanzin You get domination victory when you control, what is it, 25% of the Earths landmass...so, what sec - on do you ever achieve military victory (wiping out all opponents)? Because if you get on the road to killing everyone, you're going to have over 25% of the landmass, which means you get the domniation victory - won't this make it impossible to get to the "military" victory?

Yah, I mentioned this early (I think it's 3/4 or 2/3) and I'm guessing the game will rely on the fact that some land will be uninhabited. That way, you can conquer the world without getting all landmass. I dunno, that's all I can think of right now...

	19-10-2001 10:56									#26
	Support Apolyton

Well when it comes to a Conquest victory you might not have to accept a domination victory.

This might also apply to the other types of victory. I liked the fact that in MoO2 you could refuse to be elected ruler, and that some of the aliens would go against the council if you had used weapons of mass destruction on them.

-Alech

	19-10-2001 12:46									#27
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Go here to see a possible explanation to the UN victory.

	19-10-2001 17:09									#28
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Hmm......

Just seeing one of those screenshots. It seems when you capture a city, you get an option to destroy it. I guess if you simply destroyed every city you captured, you wouldn't "control" it, therefor avoiding the domination victory

	19-10-2001 22:33									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Lorizael Yah, I too am a little worried about the Diplomatic victory in Civ III. Guess we will have to wait for the game to come out. But there is always a way to stop a diplomatic victory "The UN will be meeting later this year to elect a leader of the world" "In other news, New York, the city where the United Nations is based, was nuked three times, taken over by paratroopers, and razed to the ground by a small country that did not get on the United Nations council"

Soon after...
"BREAKING NEWS: a small country misteriously vanished from this dimension."

	19-10-2001 22:44									#30
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Craftsman Soon after... "BREAKING NEWS: a small country misteriously vanished from this dimension."

But at least I have the satisfaction that I desroyed the United Nations. I wonder if this could actually be done? And then... could it be rebuilt?