19-10-2001 14:33									#31
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quote: Originally posted by The Templar or I could be a brain in a vat on alpha centauri ...

Yes, you are. I'm positive, because I'm the one on the vat near you. Nice to meet you.

BTW, Thanks Dan. I agree with dearmad and tniem, you should upgrade the FAQ on the civ3 site, and help yourself managing this kind of reply with a short RTFF

It seems to do miracle with overstressed webmasters

	19-10-2001 14:54									#32
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I'm wondering... if Dan needs to explain everything twice or more, must he not think that most Civ players are idiots?

Why don't we ask questions we don't know the answer to?

	19-10-2001 15:03									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Earthling7 I'm wondering... if Dan needs to explain everything twice or more, must he not think that most Civ players are idiots? Why don't we ask questions we don't know the answer to?

If someone ask the same question twice in a row, he can:
a) be short on memory
b) be an idiot
c) try to collect posts to inflate his forum rank

OTOH, if you count how many people and posts are out there, you can forgive if someone miss the first time question/answer appeared.

I'm all in favour of a bit of Search in archive, but you can't spend your time on a Search engine.
That's the role of FAQs, while the role of Forum Vet was, is and always will be, to redirect people to the appropriate FAQ with polite message or rude Read The F*** (insert as appropriate here) FAQ.

	19-10-2001 15:17									#34
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I know Dan's posted about the US version before but that's the first time I've seen the UK plans confirmed. The UK websites are using the different box cover art so it is easy to see why people might be concerned about other potential changes. I for one would rather pay extra tax and shipping for a genuine paper manual. Nice to see that it should not be necessary.

	19-10-2001 15:22									#35
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Like you say- it is easy to miss an already covered topic at these fast paced forums, especially if you aren't online reading them daily.

I have tried doing searches to previous topics to find answers, and I don't think once I have ever gotten less than 50 search results. Searching can be a lot of hard work, so I don't blame someone for inadvertantly and unwittingly asking a question that's been covered. And perhaps I will even reference a link to previous discussions for them.

	19-10-2001 15:27									#36
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If I knew how to make links, I might use them too

	19-10-2001 15:27									#37
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quote: Originally posted by kittenOFchaos Most games do well with a dvd case and small manuel...not civ3 I am sure...BUT comeon if that tin ain't going to have a huge manuel in it they better have the biscuits shaped like civ3 units.

Seen those double size DVD boxes? Could easily fit a CIV manual in there...
And I've never heard of DVD boxes INSIDE other boxes?? Sounds insane. Where I live, almost all games come in DVD only boxes.


Fred

	19-10-2001 17:27									#38
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Well the thing we have to remember is that the game may come in a DVD size case but still include a large manual. If any of the residents in the UK (and probably Europe as well) look at some of the boxes for games, they are DVD sized but a different case so they are thicker and can accommodate a large manual) - I think the latest Myst game is like that, take a look if you don't believe me.

Either way I do not think there is that much to worry about. It is merely a case of shrinking the boxes to make for easier storage. But they may be in a thicker case to allow the accommodation of a manual in.

	19-10-2001 17:32									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Grumbold If I knew how to make links, I might use them too

Just use the "http://" button above where you type... and then paste the address in when it says

	19-10-2001 18:32									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns Just use the "http://" button above where you type... and then paste the address in when it says

I can see how that could get me to a particular thread, e.g.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...12&pagenumber=2

but can you narrow it down further to a specific post in that thread?

	19-10-2001 18:48									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Grumbold I can see how that could get me to a particular thread, e.g. http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...12&pagenumber=2 but can you narrow it down further to a specific post in that thread?

To get to a post you should call showthread.php?s=&postid=postid#postpostid
where postid is a number that identifies the posts (your post has the id 544592) (copy it from the quote link)

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...4592#post544592

Someone actually renamed the thread (Most likely Markos)

	19-10-2001 20:15									#42
	Warning to Firaxis. Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I just wanna warn Firaxis: if u dont include a full size, paper manual, i will buy a pirated CIVIII. I will but the original game becouse the manual, i dont wanna PDF manual, except as backup of the paper manual.

Firaxis, u were warned. ¬ ¬
_

	19-10-2001 20:23									#43
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quote: Originally posted by CapTVK So much for the fable that reviews test the 'complete' game. If it's comes in a DVD case, there won't be a full manual in it, period. Because it's physically impossible to cram it into a DVD case! To think otherwise is pure self delusion! So as it stands LE: full manual Ordinary game box: full manual (likely) DVD-case (EU?): manual on PDF + instruction sheet. no manual = another counter argument

Hate to burst your bubble but if the gold version of the game is what the reviewers get then they DO have the "complete" game!

A paper manual , tech chart peweter figures and cookie tin does NOT a game make! Those are "extras", if they review the final, shipping version og the game then they are indeed reviewing the "complete" game.

	19-10-2001 20:32									#44
	Re: Warning to Firaxis. Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Asesino_Virtual I just wanna warn Firaxis: if u dont include a full size, paper manual, i will buy a pirated CIVIII. I will but the original game becouse the manual, i dont wanna PDF manual, except as backup of the paper manual. Firaxis, u were warned. ¬ ¬ _

I agree, Asesino. Well put.

BUMP

	19-10-2001 20:39									#45
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quote: Hate to burst your bubble but if the gold version of the game is what the reviewers get then they DO have the "complete" game! A paper manual , tech chart peweter figures and cookie tin does NOT a game make! Those are "extras", if they review the final, shipping version og the game then they are indeed reviewing the "complete" game.

Is mp an extra or is that part of the complete game?

oops....let that slip....

	19-10-2001 20:46									#46
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quote: Originally posted by drake Is mp an extra or is that part of the complete game? oops....let that slip....

Extra

	19-10-2001 20:50									#47
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In that case:

Manual: extra (10 dollars)
Tech tree poster: extra (5 dollars)
jewel case: extra (1 dollar)
box: extra (2 dollars)
pdf manual: extra (2 dollars)

Uh oh, looks like theyre going to have to tack on a few bucks to make a "complete game"

	19-10-2001 20:56									#48
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MP is not in face it. The rest is included, except the tech tree. You will need to pay $10 extra, but you get a nice tin can thrown in

	19-10-2001 21:03									#49
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Oh ive faced it

I'm just pointing out how absurd it is to think a game is incomplete without a silly manual and not incomplete with the ability to play online games...thats it

	19-10-2001 21:17									#50
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drake,

Why is it absurd? At least 80% of ACS'ers don't play MP games. We can't care less about MP.

	19-10-2001 21:27									#51
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No empathy my friend. Not a drop.

Manuals are for chumps anyway. One learns the game by playing it, not by reading about it.

	19-10-2001 21:58									#52
	Re: Warning to Firaxis. Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Asesino_Virtual I just wanna warn Firaxis: if u dont include a full size, paper manual, i will buy a pirated CIVIII. I will but the original game becouse the manual, i dont wanna PDF manual, except as backup of the paper manual. Firaxis, u were warned. ¬ ¬ _

Do you even read threads? Dan has now stated - twice, mark you - that Civ3 will include a full, paper, 235 page manual. Kapish?

	19-10-2001 22:02									#53
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quote: Originally posted by drake Manuals are for chumps anyway. One learns the game by playing it, not by reading about it.

That's only partially true, at best.

You can never be a good chess player or bridge player without reading LOTS about your game.

I suppose the same applies to Civ. I just can't imagine someone playing it by trial and error only, without any prior knowledge of the game.

Maybe it depends on the kind of person you are. I am very much a top-down person. I like to read manuals, grammars, books on bridge bidding systems, etc. They provide an overview which enables you to learn a game, or a language, faster. If I want to know what diplomacy or trade in Civ 3 is about, the first thing I'll do is read what the manual has to say about it. Armed with that knowledge, I will start playing.

I don't feel a "chump" for wishing to read about the new concepts and rules in Civ 3. It's just a matter of personal preference.

	19-10-2001 22:07									#54
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Sorry old b...just frustrated with people

I think stuff I read on the forums is 10x more helpful than anything I ever could have read in a manual. Yeah i scanned it when I first bought the civ 2 game, but one can only truly become skilled in something with experience.

Its like thinking one can be a black belt just by reading a book about karate

	19-10-2001 22:10									#55
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You know what, I think people are looking for an excuse to whinge even if there isn't one. If you use a thicker DVD box that I have seen some games come in, you can easily fit even a fairly large manual in there

	19-10-2001 22:15									#56
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quote: You know what, I think people are looking for an excuse to whinge even if there isn't one.

You don't say

	19-10-2001 22:19									#57
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It is great, that there will be a physical manual. Printing out 236 sites what an idiotic idea.