17-02-2000 07:05									#1
	Antique Map Terrain - Anyone Tried This? Enter the AD-FREE zone

Has anyone tried this?

How about replacing all of the terrain graphics with elements of historical map(s)? Imagine taking, say, an 18th century map, and using it's symbols (mountains, rivers, even cities). You could do the whole thing in the colors and textures of parchment and ink. If done carefully, I think the Civ2 map generator would create some beautiful playing surfaces. If you could change the font used by the game engine, the effect would be even stronger.

Has this been done before? I would hate to attempt something that's already been nicely implemented elsewhere.

	17-02-2000 08:31									#2
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I have been toying with a very similar idea: A 1066 Hastings scenario played out on a map with terrain, cities and units extracted from the Bayeux Tapestry.
Similar to the old maps in that it would have a creamy background with ocean being represented by blue S-lines, forests by groups of "stick" trees and cities by different house styles found on the tapestry.
The whole tapestry has a humongous variety of icons, terrain features and units that could be used...
Of course the gametext and unit names would have to be translated into Latin to match the historical text on the tapestry. Well maybe I'm going a little far...

	17-02-2000 18:19									#3
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If I understand you correctly, then you could take a look at Allard Höfelt's "Golden Age of the Republic" scenario. It's about Holland't struggle for independence in the 16th/17th century. It's great.

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong.

We who grew up tall and proud
In the shadow of the mushroom cloud
Convinced our voices can't be heard
We just want to scream it louder and louder:
"What the hell are we fighting for?"
"Just surrender and it won't hurt at all"
-Brian May (Queen)

	19-02-2000 01:20									#4
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I haven't tried, but I had come up with this idea as well.

	19-02-2000 16:13									#5
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Yeah, my Republic scenario has a 16th century map. All terrain is light brown, and the frontiers with the sea (couldn't make frontiers with other countries) are yellow. In the version online at CSC it's still pretty old, but I got a new version with better terrain and cities in the same style. They still wait more updating to be considered a "real" update to be uploaded, but if you wanna see, I can email it.
I also used unused terrains and resources to make boxes appear on the map with nice 16th century legend boxes and even country names, which looks pretty cool (a bit too small though).

I got one guy who mailed me once: "Why does all terrain look like desert?". hmmm.. quite a discouraging remark.

I think it's one of the nicest thing to do with civ2; to edit the whole game to look completely different. Also, it can be done pretty easily. A color replacer over the seashores a few times and it already looks fine.

It's also possible to change the game font, but you need to hex-edit the civ2.exe file (so not useful for scenarios). Also you gotta be careful to choose the appropriate font to make it look good.
To do this, open civ2.exe in your hex-editor, search for Times New Roman, and change it to another font you have (in the \windows\fonts directory). You can also change the other 2 fonts (Arial and System), but they are used less often in the game, and you'd need a real short name to make it fit.

Nemo, your idea sounds great too! Much nicer than all those ww2 scenarios. After all, how many 1066 scenarios are there? Only one, and that's a very crappy and old one.

	19-02-2000 17:29									#6
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Allard, let us know when you post your update! I like the idea of legends, etc. Do you try to give the terrain a texture, like parchment or old paper? And thanks for the tip about the font - Times Roman takes up so much space, I'd like to experiment to see if Arial looks better on the maps.

Cap'n Nemo, please pursue that idea! I think it could be done quite well, given that the images of the tapestry are 2-dimensional and relatively simple. I bet you could reproduce a high level of detail. Hey, were you planning on having The Comet appear?

	20-02-2000 10:22									#7
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Allard, if you changed the font to something in your system and saved it as a scenario, would someone who did not have that font be able to play the scenario? And read the messages?

	20-02-2000 08:56									#8
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Mindseye:
You know the tapestry quite well if you know about the comet... I have a 1/4 scale copy of the whole thing, about 60 feet long which could make for a good starting point.
But it's a lot of work and I don't know if it would be fun to play which is the key reason for making a Civ2 scenario... Looking good accounts for 95% of the work but will not make up for a boring, unplayable scenario.
I'm still thinking about it...

	21-02-2000 02:31									#9
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I made a little screenshot of the "Republic" map:

don't pay attention to the dikes; they're only still in experimental phase and don't look good enough yet.

Nemo, I think it would be worth the work. Even though it may be true it's not good to stop halfway, still it's worse to not start being afraid of having to stop halfway. isn't it?
And hey, not all scenarios need as much work as Red Front..

Stefan, thanks for noticing, the link is corrected. It should be fine now. Yes, I have you mail.
[This message has been edited by Allard HS (edited February 21, 2000).]

	21-02-2000 02:36									#10
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Hey, cool. Look what it saied when I tried to view Allard's screenshot via right-mouse-button-option:

"Forbidden


You do not have permission to access this document.

Binary files stored on FreeServers must be accessed by a local link on a FreeServers user web
page.

Thank you for using Free Servers."

It's not a hoax!

Oh, Allard, did you receive the mail(s) I sent you... well a couple of months ago?


------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong.

We who grew up tall and proud
In the shadow of the mushroom cloud
Convinced our voices can't be heard
We just want to scream it louder and louder:
"What the hell are we fighting for?"
"Just surrender and it won't hurt at all"
-Brian May (Queen)

	24-02-2000 09:56									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Allard -

Nice work! You units in particular are quite well executed! Very interesting approach to the cities, reducing them to a much smaller scale, Vauban-style walls - great idea, don't think I've seen that before! And I love the tulips resource icon! ;->


Nemo -

Why not at least take your idea as far as a mock-up to see what kind of results you can achieve using the tapestry as a source? Create a handful of units and a fortification or a city, and THEN decide if it's feasible. Wow, at 1/4 scale the tapestry is SIXTY feet long? I knew it was big, I didn't realize it was THAT big! Yes, I'd agree that would be QUITE a "starting point"! Go for it!