20-10-2001 10:45									#1
	9+ civs and the screens: cured! Remove this text

"Depending on the map size you select, you may play with up to 16 Civs at once. The foreign advisor screen will only display eight civs at a time, however, so you can hold shift & right click on any of the eight slots on that screen to select another known civ to display."

-ask the devs-

Sha na na na! Oh yeah!

Very easy, clean fix for the the limited leader slots in the screens.
And I am sure that this implementation works for all of the relevant screens.

	20-10-2001 10:52									#2
	Inflate your Upload Space

Yeah maybe it will work. It sounds like it might get annoying thoug, not being able to see everyone at once. But hey i guess ill just have to wait and see, maybe it will be all good

	20-10-2001 10:54									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

now that is great news,,, especially for when MP hits the stores !!!!

	20-10-2001 11:01									#4
	Re: 9+ civs and the screens: cured! Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba "Depending on the map size you select, you may play with up to 16 Civs at once. The foreign advisor screen will only display eight civs at a time, however, so you can hold shift & right click on any of the eight slots on that screen to select another known civ to display." -ask the devs- Sha na na na! Oh yeah! Very easy, clean fix for the the limited leader slots in the screens. And I am sure that this implementation works for all of the relevant screens.

Hell yea!

	20-10-2001 14:23									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Good news!!

	20-10-2001 14:32									#6
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

It would have been nice to have them all visible, but this is not bad. I wonder if it is because of cluttered screen, or if the 9+ concept was a last minute addition.

	20-10-2001 15:39									#7
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

This is a further proof that the '16 civs at once'-option was added shortly before Civ3 went gold.

Well, at least I have some option to display all civs, unlike in CtP2.

	20-10-2001 15:43									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: This is a further proof that the '16 civs at once'-option was added shortly before Civ3 went gold.

Precisely. And one wonders what in the world got them to make such a change...hmmm....

	20-10-2001 15:48									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Good morning yin!

	20-10-2001 15:54									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Yin is right. The complaints of the Apolytoners about the 8-civs limit were the biggest, if not the only reason for Firaxis to change it. So much about the usefulness of 'whining'.

	20-10-2001 16:35									#11
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by lockstep Yin is right. The complaints of the Apolytoners about the 8-civs limit were the biggest, if not the only reason for Firaxis to change it. So much about the usefulness of 'whining'.

Amen!

One thing, though: If they added the 16-player option at the last possible moment, will it have been seriously tested?

	20-10-2001 16:37									#12
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Probably not; but all the same- I am glad it is in

Thanx to all the 'squeaky wheels'

	20-10-2001 19:25									#13
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tribune One thing, though: If they added the 16-player option at the last possible moment, will it have been seriously tested?

Isn't that what we're for?

	20-10-2001 20:44									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I don't get it. Why going gold mean that no further changes can be made?

	20-10-2001 20:49									#15
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Actually, I would not really consider this an elegant fix, though I appreciate their increasing the natural civ limit to 16 and giving some support for it. The problem is that less than a fourth of all the relations can be seen at one time. Though this may be fine if you've only discovered a few of the civs, later on in the game, seeing the global diplomatic picture will be tedious.

On the eight civ screen 28 relations can be seen. But with 16 civs, there are 120 relations. Hopefully, Firaxis will give an alternate matrix screen with improved functionality for 16 civ games.

	20-10-2001 21:11									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I agree. Although it is nice to be able to see the other 8 leaders, having to "shift-right click" to add the leaders, note who they have what relations with, then swap them out will be _very_ clunky indeed.

Let's hope they can patch or otherwise change the view screen so that all 16 could be visible at once. On 1024 X 768 resolution they could easily shrink the leader portraits by 50% and fit them all in.

Of course, all this assumes they really want to make the screens "streamlined" for all game options and not simply the options "they think" work best.

Sixteen civ's will be nice but looks like you'll have to swap out leaders a lot to get the full picture...

	20-10-2001 21:20									#17
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Ozymandous On 1024 X 768 resolution they could easily shrink the leader portraits by 50% and fit them all in.

This may work, but would it be readable? 120 possible lines connecting 16 nodes arranged in a circle... I don't think you'll be able to tell which line is which!

	20-10-2001 21:48									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

There's probably an embassy screen like in Civ2 where it lists all the treaties (up to 15) for each civ, so this 8-pic limit is no great loss. Something to fix in the patch

	20-10-2001 21:48									#19
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by RedWhiteArcher I don't get it. Why going gold mean that no further changes can be made?

the product is no longer at firaxis, final copies are being made and shipped to stores and have been for about a week. adding some extra feature with a patch isn't going to happen, and if it does the quality probably won't be too good.

	20-10-2001 21:49									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: This may work, but would it be readable? 120 possible lines connecting 16 nodes arranged in a circle... I don't think you'll be able to tell which line is which!

I agree, and if i play with the full 16 civs, which i doubt will be very often, i would be surprised if i really need to see 16 portraits at the same time.

I would have thought that for most games and scenarios that 10 civs would more than enough

	20-10-2001 21:59									#21
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Actually I think that all 16 at once would be very cluttered and hard to read. If you can swap out certain pics for the ones you want to see, at least you know what you're looking at. I think playing 16 civs... no matter what... is gonna be difficult. All those relations to keep track of...

	20-10-2001 22:06									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

You don't need to see all those lines and stuff, just maintain a state of war with all races all the time.

	20-10-2001 22:10									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Yah, BigBopper... but most of us want to win the game

	20-10-2001 22:41									#24
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Stuie Isn't that what we're for?

Unfortunately it does appear that those buying the games are simply paying beta testers. It shouldn't be that way but it is.

	20-10-2001 23:26									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

It's not the ideal solution, but I'll take it! I was expecting to be without any information or contact screens for more than the 8 civs which were supported, so this is a definite improvement on my expectations. That was the one thing that was getting me down (so I know how you MP people feel, though that's not high on my wish list, and this was). This is great news for me!

	20-10-2001 23:32									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Agreed.

I had finally learned to live with the idea I'd never have more than 8 civs in a game working properly after Ctp. Firaxis has restored my faith.

Now all they need to do is give me MAD and Civil Wars and I'll be verily pleased

	20-10-2001 23:33									#27
	seeing all the relationships Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Seeing ALL the relationships -- that is SO Unhistorical
Neglecting (or being ignorant of) occasional "minor" countries is how it's done in real life.
See, this is a realism bonus!

OTH, they could perhaps (ahem) use a 16x16, square matrix, ala CtP. Since there seems to be only 4 or 5 different types of relationships, and most of those go both ways, you could fit those in with just the civ names and skip the leaders. It would fill up most of the screen, and you would have the option to print it.

Each different type of relationship would be indicated by a different symbol. Since you have the potential for at least 2 types of relationships between any 2 civs (e.g., Peace, Military Alliance with/against), there would have to be some economy in the graphic real estate department.

This would come in handy with the MP add-on!

---
On the THIRD Hand, have we even seen the "Trades" screen, the other tab on the "Treaties" screen??

	21-10-2001 03:48									#28
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Unfortunately it does appear that those buying the games are simply paying beta testers. It shouldn't be that way but it is.

I agree, but I'd rather have the option to play 16 civ's with a few bugs than to not have the option at all.

Bugs can be killed, almost as easily as Civ2 AI.

(I hope Civ2's AI programmer isn't taking all of the Civ2 AI bashing personally... I'd have no idea where to start!)