20-10-2001 16:08									#1
	Terrain Improvements Got spare money?

Irrigation
Basic Mine
Road/railroad
Fortress
(Colonies)

Has anyone seen a screenshot with anything more than those four types? There don't seem to be any advanced mines, farms or airstrips. Which surely means workers pretty become redundant post railroads, except as mobile population points and to repair enemy damage?

David

	20-10-2001 16:21									#2
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Well, do we know yet whether the more radical land transforming (formerly limited to engineers) is still in? Also, there's always the turning of swamps and jungle into more productive land. And cleaning up polution.

	20-10-2001 16:29									#3
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They can plant forests after the invention of engineering.

	20-10-2001 16:35									#4
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I am pretty sure I heard that terraforming is in.

But I don't remember where, how long ago, or any particular details, except the name 'Jeff Briggs' comes to mind.

	20-10-2001 16:43									#5
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It would seem reasonable that the tile improvements available in Civ2 will be present here. Anything else would be a bit funny.

	21-10-2001 02:20									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Earthling7 It would seem reasonable that the tile improvements available in Civ2 will be present here. Anything else would be a bit funny.

Civ 2 didn't include the ability to put mines on grassland, which was a funny idea of Activisions, and if we don't get the engineer upgrade how long will teraforming take?

But it's strange that there is no mention of what sort of terrain alteration is possible. I get the feeling they don't want us messing with their nice new random map generation.

David

	21-10-2001 02:29									#7
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It's also weird that there has been no indication that farmland is in. I really hope it is, as the current irrigation graphic looks horrible.

	21-10-2001 02:29									#8
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Farmlands are just unnecessary micromanagement. I'd be glad if they're gone. Maybe we have now some city improvement which gives more food from irrigations, or maybe a small wonder "farmlands". Who knows..

I wouldn't mind if you couldn't turn deserts to grasslands as in Civ2 with engineers, that was quite silly. They could also make hills from grassland. I hope we won't see this kind of things in Civ3.

	21-10-2001 02:42									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Wexu Farmlands are just unnecessary micromanagement. I'd be glad if they're gone.

So farming techniques today are the same as 2000 years ago?

If you feel it is too much micromanagement, just automate the workers (provided the automation function similar or better than SMAC's; civ 2's was horrible). Or don't build farmland, it's your choice. But there needs to be some way to show the increase in food production over time, and it has to take some work, not just a cheap wonder.

	21-10-2001 02:53									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Akron So farming techniques today are the same as 2000 years ago?

And they are still walking on the same roads that were build many thousands of years ago? Where are all the highways?? (Highways were a city improvement in Civ2, IIRC )

quote: ...not just a cheap wonder.

Ok, maybe a high priced city improvement then? You'd had to build them to every city. That's not cheap.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure there are no farmlands as a terrain improvement, so get used to it!

	21-10-2001 03:00									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Akron So farming techniques today are the same as 2000 years ago? If you feel it is too much micromanagement, just automate the workers (provided the automation function similar or better than SMAC's; civ 2's was horrible). Or don't build farmland, it's your choice. But there needs to be some way to show the increase in food production over time, and it has to take some work, not just a cheap wonder.

I like farmlands ok, but I think tech advances by themselves, such as biotech, would increase food yields after farmland.

	21-10-2001 03:52									#12
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In Civ2, you farmlands by themselves didnt do anything. You needed farmlands and supermarkets to double food output. Maybe in Civ3 they just cut off the farmland and kept the supermarket

	21-10-2001 03:59									#13
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I, for one, was not all that happy with planting farmland. It detraced somewhat from the overall fun of the game (what herding flocks of engineers around and all). What might be cool would be an agricultural advance (one in the middle ages, one in moden times) to increase food production once the advance is achieved. Or as Lawrence said, build some sort of city improvement, like the supermarket, that ups the value of the land.

	21-10-2001 04:23									#14
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I agree with templar. Messing with engineers in the late game of civ2 got tedious. Farmland was realistic, but no fun.

	21-10-2001 04:24									#15
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Personally i think they should get ride of the supermarket and keep the farmland. I liked farmlands

	21-10-2001 05:57									#16
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I tile improving.
I Tile modification.

	21-10-2001 07:42									#17
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wheres the fun in leaving it at just irragation anyways. how boring . Anyways what else are you going to do with your workers in modern times

	21-10-2001 09:50									#18
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u cant take out the farm, it would be too easy to double food prod.

	21-10-2001 11:08									#19
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I too loved tile improvements!!!

I dunno, maybe I was strange, but my fav. part of civ games was improving my infrastucture. I hated building things in my cities, because the city improvements are so intangable. But building roads and irrigation and mines etc etc was something you could actually see, which was great fun for me.

I was never much of a warmonger though, that got just as tedious for me as you all say infrastructure is for you. Personally, I just liked all the micromanagement. No governors for me!!

	21-10-2001 16:11									#20
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Thing is it was the increase in food production through farming developments that allowed for cities and nations. But I always liked the feeling that my civilization had taken control of the landscape, made the land ours. How boring to have the same map throughout the whole game, marred by that awful irrigation, pockmarked by self-effacing mines everywhere, and tied down by roads on every tile (why are they there?).

David

	21-10-2001 20:58									#21
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I agree with whoever said they liked putting in farms because they looked a lot better than irrigation.

For me, part of the fun of the game was continually making terrain improvements around my city, building it up until it sprawled over the maximum radius. I liked the look of turning irrigation to farms, and of seeing my mighty cities compared to the weak, merely irrigated cities of my foes! Bwahaha!

*ahem*

That being said, perhaps the irrigated tiles might automatically update to farmland at some point, either after a certain tech advance or a certain city improvement is built? Probably not, but it would be a cool thing (and would save the tedium of having hordes of engineers running around)

Cheers.