25-02-2000 05:06									#1
	Vanishing Vikings Revisited Support Apolyton

I remember a while ago that it's possible to create impassable terrain... does anyone know how to do this?
If not, the only solution for me would be to eliminate the Vikings and make them Barbarians instead - but they must found cities! What happens if you create a Barbarian settler? Will he found a city, or just wander about and improve if his pals manage to capture one later? Will he appear at all?

	25-02-2000 07:07									#2
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...don't bother with the second part; I've tried creating babarian settlers with Events and you can't.

	25-02-2000 07:36									#3
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Will the barbarian Vikings have cities at the start of the game? If so, you could make these cities produce settlers by changing the rules text after they capture the cities you want.

Another option is to have two events files, one for before you want contact with the Vikings that prevent negotiation, and a second that omits the negotiation prevention.

	25-02-2000 11:06									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

One way to get impassable terrain is by creating Domain 3 units with zero move; sleague.apolyton.net/Guides/sldt_domain_3.shtml

	25-02-2000 13:29									#5
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You could do a ring of land around the vikings' area, with a terrain of movement cost, say, 50...that would make it basically impasssible...

Something similar was done in the "Shadowdawn" scenario of old: the high tech civ had one city that was a port, which was surrounded by a ring of land. In effect, you have to build a port on that ring to exit or enter the city.

You could, instead of having a high movement cost, give the vikings no settlers to start with, and set the settlers as requiring a tech vikings don't have. Then, at the point you wish to allow them to expand, give them the settler tech.

-KhanMan

	25-02-2000 23:38									#6
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Actually creating impassable terrain is tricky and I've been unable to do this. However, it is possible to create a unit on the terrain that looks identically like the terrain it's on (you'll have to do some shield-readjusting to hide the shield). Make the unit have huge numbers of Hit Points, and also a very high defense. Give it 0 for movement rate. (If the unit is barbarian make sure it's a diplomat or chieftain, so it won't disappear.)

This way, the terrain is impassable because anybody who wants to get onto it must attack and destroy it first. (And you could always have an event file create more units at the square periodically, although it could be a bit of a waste.)

The only flaw with this is that the unit might be bribed or nuked. If it is bribed then it is still immobile but the terrain is passable by the bribing civ. This can be eliminated by prohibiting spies, or by making the owning faction a Democratic one.

The other flaw with this is that the unit might get nuked. This is a situation I have no way of countering - the events will not recognize a nuked unit as a defeated one, and therefore will not recreate it. And of course no single unit can survive a nuclear attack regardless of how high its defence may be.

I am using a similar technique with my Star Wars scenario: to make certain terrain squares stars and impassable, I have made very powerful no-move barbarian diplomat units called Stars which have no visible shield line. If any craft is foolish enough to fly into one of these, the combat is short and usually one-sided. The Star Wars universe (curiously) does not use Nukes, and so the Stars are quite safe. However, I have tested it and found that the Death Star can in fact destroy a star if it is lucky.

In this case there is a slight reward and an amusing text pop up remonstrating with the unruly player.

------------------
"In all creation, there can be no task more onerous or tedious than that of playing God." - Stephen Fry, 'The Liar'.

	26-02-2000 00:59									#7
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You can make an impassable terrain by creating an Airunit that does have the Air Superority flag, zero movement and a range of two. If there are no units with the fighter flag this works beautifully!

I don't know about if it is possible to bribe those units but when you give them a very, very large shield cost no one will be able to afford it.

One would have to remove the nukes though...

	26-02-2000 02:56									#8
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Hendrik - you could stack two of those units to counter the bribe possibility.

	26-02-2000 04:09									#9
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Again, I have failed to notice the obvious.

	26-02-2000 23:16									#10
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The scenario finishes with the Norman invasion of Ireland in the 12th century, which not surprisingly, means that there are no nuclear weapons in the game.
I've surrounded the lone starting Viking on an island with Move 0 Barbarians with unfeasibly high defence and cost, which never become obsolete. He just moves backwards and forwards turn after turn, never founding a city (I've seen this before) and hopefully he won't commit suicide. Later on, I'll change the terrain to let him out to found the Viking city shortly before the great invasion begins.

	27-02-2000 08:08									#11
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Some bizarre things have happened; firstly changing terrain seems to act like a super-powerful nuke, decimating absolutely everything within about 3 hexes (which destroys the Vikings anyway, so I won't go there...) Second when the Viking settler appears on Turn 465 ready to found Dublin, it appears okay, and instantly creates a Size 10 City with a free unit already inside and a couple of free improvements! Is this normal for a civ founding its first city late in the game?

	28-02-2000 10:40									#12
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Might be...

You didn't have a viking city prior to dublin?

Hmmmm...

Have you thought of making one city in the beginning, with tundra all around it (ie. just enough food to support the city, but no extra food or shields)?

This might solve the problem.

As for the inaccessble terrain, if you want to do it with just terrain, merely do one land square in the center, surrounded on all sides by eight ocean squares, with a ring of land (width one square) on the other side. Around this is however mcuh ocean or land you want. Don't give them any techs, and make settlers require a tec they can't get, and they are confined to one city until you give them the settler tech.

-KhanMan

	28-02-2000 23:07									#13
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This was my solution previously and it didn't work; they vanished before they ever got to invade Ireland.
I think now I may know why...