20-10-2001 21:29									#1
	How important is Monarchy? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

If Monarchy is as important as it was in Civ2, will the Japanese and Aztecs have a significant advantage in their starting technologies? There are four prerequisites for Monarchy and they get one (Ceremonial Burial) and have a 50% chance at the other (Warrior Code).

However, Republic also has only four prerequisites including Alphabet, which is the bonus technology for Commercial civilizations. I wonder if Republic will be a more viable early government choice than it was in Civ2, where the happiness and production penalties in the early game made it difficult to use...

	20-10-2001 21:34									#2
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I usually skipped over Monarchy on the way up, because of my style of play and the fact that Republic followed close after.

I'm not really worried about it.

	20-10-2001 22:29									#3
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I'm looking forward to playing Manarchy. Although it wasn't as efficient as Republic and Democracy, it was always a good feeling when I went from Despotism to Manarchy. I hope it's as good as it was in earlier games.

	20-10-2001 22:44									#4
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Monarchy always was the government I used up until either Democracy or Communism depending on how the game was going. I assume that for me those two civs will be a good pick. Thanks for the heads up!

	20-10-2001 22:45									#5
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I dont no much about Civ-3 monarchy - but I do hope that one can play somewhat updated versions of monarchy (= industrial era monarchy) and despotism (= early 20th century totalitarianism).
It would be nice if all five government-choices where viable & playable choices, also late in the game.

Compare above with the transformation of the Civ-2 settler into engineer. The same unit, but enhanced. The same princip one could apply do Civ-3 ancient/medieval gov-choices like despotism & monarchy.

	21-10-2001 01:04									#6
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Looks like both Republic and Monarchy will take as long to research, going by the Gamespot tech tree shots. If Civ 3 is anything like its predecessors, my guess is that Monarchy will be good for those with more agressive intentions and Republic for the more peaceful. But what will government be like until we get one or the other without fundementalism to rely on?

David

	21-10-2001 01:19									#7
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To get Republic you'll have to research -

Alphabet ( Commercial )
Writing
Philosophy
Code of Laws
The Republic

To get Monarchy you'll need
Ceremonial Burial ( Religious )
Warrior Code ( 50% chance, Militaristic )
Mysticism
Polytheism
Monarchy

So it just depends on what techs you want. The Republic route takes you through a lot of techs that give nothing ( Writing, Alphabet ) so it may be advisable to go for Monarchy first.

Edit - Mind you you'll want Writing in order to make treaties with other civs so........

	21-10-2001 01:28									#8
	Re: How important is Monarchy? Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by ChrisShaffer I wonder if Republic will be a more viable early government choice than it was in Civ2, where the happiness and production penalties in the early game made it difficult to use...

That's at least what I hope. I have never (it's true)
succeeded with my early republics in Civ II.
I have headed for democracy or communism,
so the republic stage has often never ocured.
Hopefully it's more working, because I don't
want to have that 3 squares rule in Civ III.

Anyway, if I use my peasant's logic,
that rule hasn't got anything to do with
republic, and certainly not with the Republicans.

	21-10-2001 01:30									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

ChrisShaffer, think of it as a challenge.
Alot of this discussion also played out on the "Governments" thread. It looks like Firaxis intends to do something like the following:

Default Gov: Despotism (Anarchy COULD be seen as a particularly decentralized form of despotism...)

Warmonger Govs: Monarchy, later replaced by Communism
Peacenik Govs: Republic, later replaced by Democracy

My own feelings on this are that govs should be divided a little differently, but then again, I liked SE from SMAC so what do I know. I might do something like this:

Default Gov: Despotism
Warmonger: Monarchy, Fascism
Trade Monger: Republic, Corporate Republic (think straight-up libertarian nightmare here)
Production Monger: Feudalism, Communism

Maybe a science monger or "utopian" strain should appear late in the game

utopian - Democracy, Technocracy

the conflict here being one between the masses know best versus the experts (scientists, bureaucrats, social engineers) know best.

And you know what? With that swell editor, all of this could happen.

	21-10-2001 02:04									#10
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I've always preferred Monarchy because under Republic, each unit cost one shield to support AND settlers want two food. That's a pretty big chunk out of your city production at the beginning of the game, and would basically in some cases halve or even bring to a standstill your city population growth.

Monarch -> Communism -> Republic -> Democracy... or I might switch to Republic after Monarchy if the there's a massive budget deficit.

	21-10-2001 02:16									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I hope that Monarchy would be balanced with Republic,
better than in Civ2, there the only use good use for it was in war.
In peace Republic ROCKED.

Does anybody remeber Despotism from civ1,
it was well balanced compared to other governments:
-it was only govenment with a martial law, and it was unlimited
-it was only govenment with "free shields"

While you would ICSing in civ1 you won't go into Monarchy until you have enough cities (since only Desporism had "free shields").

Since in civ2 martial law & "some" free shield where given to monarchy
despotism became USELESS.

Of course I know some old CIV1 veterans which used only DESPOTISM
in civ1 & it wasn't bad strategy for militaristic civ after all.

In civ1 playing Democracy was much more harder, because there was
no such thing as Police Station or Shakespeare Theather.
As I remember I never used Democracy in civ1, only Republic.

I don't like things like "government upgrading".
In civ2 you would use:
1) --> Communism --> Fundamentalism
Despotism --> Monarchy 2) --> Republic --> Democracy

There was no reson to use old governments.
Still old government types are usefull in real world so they should be more balanced.

DESPOTISAM is nothing else than modern DICTATORSHIP.

MONARCHY is a little SOFTER,

REPUBLIC is even more "softer",

DEMOCRACY is a "very soft" govenment type,

and COMMUNISM is combination of DESPOTISM, MONARCHY & IMPROVED ECONOMIC model (maybe extra production?)


P.S. So I think that desptism in Civ3 would need some improvnig.
I also hope that since Sid Meyer works on the game (author of civ1)
and not B. Reynolds (author of civ2), that these inbalances with
government types would have been fixed.

	21-10-2001 02:16									#12
	Re: How important is Monarchy? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by ChrisShaffer If Monarchy is as important as it was in Civ2, will the Japanese and Aztecs have a significant advantage in their starting technologies? There are four prerequisites for Monarchy and they get one (Ceremonial Burial) and have a 50% chance at the other (Warrior Code).

According to Dan as he states at Civ3.com, The Aztecs start out with Warrior Code. I assume this means the Japanese get The Wheel.

See here

	21-10-2001 02:26									#13
	Re: Re: How important is Monarchy? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Pembleton According to Dan as he states at Civ3.com, The Aztecs start out with Warrior Code. I assume this means the Japanese get The Wheel. See here

Does the wheel still give chariots? Alot of good that'll do the Japanese on their little island. What they need is what ever leads to the samurai, if that is their CSU. Well who knows after the Iroquois?

David

	21-10-2001 06:12									#14
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quote: That's at least what I hope. I have never (it's true) succeeded with my early republics in Civ II.

In MP i usually went directly to Republic without going to firt to Monarchy especially in deyty level games.

Establish around 8 cities, build temples, irrigate a few tiles, make sure all cities above size 3 and then Republic and 100% luxuries, WLTPD, grow, make a few more cities and go directly to Michelangelo Chappel making sure caracvabns are ready when it comes. Try to get also John Bach's and then the world is mine.

	21-10-2001 06:34									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Bakunine In MP i usually went directly to Republic without going to firt to Monarchy especially in deyty level games. Establish around 8 cities, build temples, irrigate a few tiles, make sure all cities above size 3 and then Republic and 100% luxuries, WLTPD, grow, make a few more cities and go directly to Michelangelo Chappel making sure caracvabns are ready when it comes. Try to get also John Bach's and then the world is mine.

Urg! I hope Firaxis disabled the dreaded President's Day Sale!

	21-10-2001 14:22									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Bakunine Establish around 8 cities, build temples, irrigate a few tiles, make sure all cities above size 3 and then Republic and 100% luxuries, WLTPD, grow, make a few more cities and go directly to Michelangelo Chappel making sure caracvabns are ready when it comes. Try to get also John Bach's and then the world is mine.

That's one strategy among the others, but I use
my own ones.